The Queerest Podcast
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The Queerest Podcast is your cosmic guide to the Queer Universe. Hosted by Andraé BVR, each episode takes you on an interstellar journey through queer culture, identity, and influence. From dismantling media tropes to exploring queer representation, we invite you to challenge norms and expand your horizons. So, buckle up, set your phasers to fabulous—close encounters of the queerest kind await!
The Queerest Podcast
THE QUEER ECONOMY: The Future of LGBTQ+ Business in a Changing World
How are LGBTQ+ businesses building resilience and reshaping industries?
In The Queer Economy: The Future of LGBTQ+ Business in a Changing World, host Andraé BVR and Travers Johnson, CEO of Queerency, explore the rise of queer entrepreneurship and its cultural impact. Together, they discuss the origin of LGBTQ+ Business Week, the challenges of queer-owned businesses, and the broader power of “pink money.” This episode showcases the role of entrepreneurship in fostering representation and economic power.
a brand perception of your business and that trust that they built, it can go away very quickly. And that's really hard to get back. So yeah, I think that that's important for brands to know that our, our spending power is, I don't think is going to change, right? Like, I think that it will, if anything, like the larger, depending on the larger macro economic issues that happen in our country, that may affect the way in which everyone is able to spend, but like proportionally, LGBTQ people are still going to be a large part of our economy, right? And the question is whether or not we're going to use our money in support of your business. And that really is a decision that comes down to these corporations and how they engage with us.
SPEAKER_00:Welcome to the Queerest Podcast, your cosmic guide to the queer universe. Hosted by Andre BVR, each episode takes you on an interstellar journey through queer culture, identity, and influence. From dismantling media tropes to exploring queer representation, we invite you to challenge norms and expand your horizons. So buckle up and set your phasers to fabulous. Close encounters of the queerest kind await.
SPEAKER_02:Greetings, cosmic queers and allies. Welcome to the Queers Podcast. I am your host, Andre BVR, and today we are diving into a crucial conversation about LGBTQ economic resilience. As queer rights and economic opportunities face increasing challenges, financial independence and community driven businesses have never been more important. Being an LGBTQ plus entrepreneur or supporting queer owned businesses isn't just about making a living. It's about shaping a more equitable future. Our guest today, Travers Johnson, is leading the charge. He is the founder and CEO of Queerency, the leading source for LGBTQ plus business news and finances, and the creator of LGBTQ Plus Business Week, a national celebration of queer entrepreneurship. With more than 15 years of experience in digital media, marketing and publishing, he is working with industry giants like MailChimp, Penguin Random House and Edelman. He is a Forbes contributor covering the intersections of the queer economy and the creator economy and a coach for the Google News Initiative Startups Lab, which helps media companies and creators grow their businesses. With his work, Travers is reshaping the queer economic landscape, ensuring that financial empowerment isn't just a buzzword, but a reality for our communities. Travers, welcome to the podcast.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you so much for having me, Andre. It's such a pleasure. And I just want to start by Just saying how grateful I am to you for your mentorship and support over the years. You've always been there when I needed you to ask a question or just to give some insight. So really honored to
SPEAKER_02:be here with you. Amazing. No, and I honestly am so inspired by all the work that you do. I think it's so important that we have representation within business. And I think the work that you and your team continue to do to shed light on queer entrepreneurs and queer business and the importance of our community is essential and really amazing work. So, so happy to be able to support you and so glad that you're able to join us today on this podcast. So I would love to start actually at the beginning. I want to know about your journey and what made you say Queer NC needs to exist and it needs to exist now. What was that moment for you that really inspired all of this to come to fruition?
SPEAKER_01:Sure. So as you mentioned when you were sharing my bio, I have a background in media and publishing and business news. And I've always been super interested in the intersection of business media and minority media. And so I grew up reading publications like Black Enterprise, which is a magazine about Black entrepreneurship and business. I love Forbes. I love Fast Company. And as someone who just nerded out over business content, I was... I would find these tidbits about queer entrepreneurs or queer innovators over the years, and I would always be pleasantly surprised, but surprised nonetheless when I would learn things like the founder of Sirius XM Radio is a trans woman, or that companies like Facebook and OpenAI and Prezi and PayPal have gay co-founders or that a black gay man helped fund the civil rights movement or that people like Arlen Hamilton, who's one of the leading venture capitalists in Silicon Valley and is also a black lesbian woman, even exists. And I thought that know if someone like me who nerds out over this content like is always seeking it out if i am only learning this well into my adulthood very randomly and without any consistency i'm sure that other people don't know this stuff either and what does that say about the glass ceilings and sometimes artificial glass ceilings we may be putting on what we can achieve in business and who we can be, not only in our careers, but in our lives beyond that. And so in 2020, I had been doing a newsletter focused on Black-owned businesses. And I'm the type of person who, when I see that other people are doing things as well or better than me. Like, I don't believe in competing. I believe in collaborating. Right. And so at that point in 2020, everybody was talking about Black-owned businesses. It had become a, you know, with the Black Lives Matter movement, it had become a huge mainstream trend to talk about Black-owned businesses and support them. And everyone media company and non-media companies, you know, just creators in general, were talking about Black-owned businesses. I thought, you know, there are already these great publications and creators covering this, but even amongst all of this, I don't see anyone talking about LGBTQ entrepreneurship. And so I launched Queerency as just an Instagram page and a newsletter in June of 2020 and have just been growing it ever since.
SPEAKER_02:That's amazing, honestly. And I, for those that may not have, are not aware of Queerency, you need to follow them. They are amazing. They are continually pushing out really amazing spotlights on different queer businesses, the history of queer business. And there's just so much information that I honestly have never seen anywhere else, truly. And so like for your team to be able to bring that to the masses, I think is so important that I think it's essential education for the wider community. whether people are queer or not queer, being able to understand where our community is within the realm of business, I think is so important. In the early days of QueerNC, what was that like for you? You said you started up as an Instagram page and a newsletter. What did you hope was going to come of it as a platform?
SPEAKER_01:Sure. Yeah. So at the time, I thought that Queerency, the goal was for Queerency to be like morning brew for queer people or the skim for queer people. So the idea was that it was going to be like a weekly newsletter focused on LGBTQ businesses, personal finance and just career information, things like that. But what I realized very early on is that in order to grow a newsletter business, you have to have an audience. And our LGBTQ people, people of color, really over-index on social media. And so I knew that in order to build that audience, I had to meet people where they already lived, which was, at that time, Instagram. And... So it sort of shifted in early 2021 from the idea of this being a newsletter-focused business to a creator-focused business, right? And actually, I'll back up and say that at that stage, I wasn't even thinking of myself as a creator, but more so as a social-first business, meaning that like, The news that we were creating would be housed and shared first on social media and then would sort of filter out to the newsletter and our website as opposed to the opposite, which is what you see in traditional media where like, you know, the Washington Post or, you know, these larger legacy media companies create most of their content online. on their websites, and then social media is an afterthought. And so that was the original goal, but in business and especially in media, you have to be flexible and you have to be able to pivot. And so it went from a newsletter concept to a social first concept. And then throughout 2020, I was growing, we were primarily posting like carousel, like photos and text based content. And towards like the middle of, I think it was Q3, I started to notice a plateau in our analytics. Like nothing had changed about the type of content that we were doing. I knew that it was resonating, but we weren't growing. And I noticed that the reason we weren't growing was because we weren't doing video. And at this time, if you can recall way back then, that was the rise of TikTok as not only an app for skits and dance trends, but also information. So it was at that point that I realized that if I wanted Queer NC to not only just survive, but to thrive, I was going to have to start doing social video. And I really did not want to because up until that point, like literally for the first year and change of really the first year and a half of Queer NC, it was basically a nameless, faceless thing. account, right? No one knew who I was. No one knew my name. No one knew what I looked like. And I went kicking and screaming into doing social video because I'm not like, even though like I've gotten pretty good at it, it's not like something I just like am naturally inclined to do. Like, you know, some people are really like, You know, grew up, you know, younger kids these days, like grow up wanting to be YouTubers, stuff like that. That was never my thing. And so and when I knew that I wanted to start doing social video for Instagram, I thought, well, I might as well try out TikTok. Right. Because I know that that's where a lot of people are. So I started doing TikTok in early 2022. And literally, I think about in February 2022 was my first TikTok video. And within a few weeks, I had gone viral on TikTok. And over the next year, I grew from zero to 50,000 followers. over that next year. The following year, I grew from 50,000 to 100. And as a result of that growth and that reach on TikTok, it trickled down to Instagram and to our website and then to our newsletter. And so, sorry, I think that was a long way. No,
SPEAKER_02:that was great. That was great. I'm curious. I think this is like the journey of like a creator and of a business. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_03:It's
SPEAKER_02:like understanding that you know, although it'd be fantastic if we have overnight success, that's not always the reality. And it's like, it takes time and a lot of energy and effort in order to scale a business or a channel. And, you know, clearly, you know, you and your team have been able to do that fantastically where you filled a space in the market that needed to be occupied for education of, you know, different businesses and the work around, you know, how, how these communities can come together to support each other and, you know, create a more equitable future for all of us. So I think that's fantastic. I'm curious, as you were starting up QueerNC, has your perspective on queer entrepreneurship changed at all? How has the experience really informed how you kind of go about it now from the early days?
SPEAKER_01:That's a great question. So just the first thing I want to say, as far as a larger context is, One of the biggest media is a really hard business because it's about attention. Right. Like people think that like media is about being able to report and, you know, report a story and to write well and that sort of stuff. But like what media is actually these days is about commanding attention in media. a world where everything is commanding our attention, right? And so one of the biggest challenges early on for QueerNC was not just getting the attention of people, but it was also I had to build somewhat a market, right? So what I mean by that is like, Queerency is not just about LGBTQ people. It's not just about LGBTQ culture. Those markets already exist. Queerency is very laser focused on LGBTQ business, right? And there have been lots of other great people focused on like or creators focused on lgbtq personal finance like the queer money podcast by the debt free guys they have done really great work for a really long time there are lots of other queer personal finance experts that have really just sort of taken off over the past five years or so. But there really was not a publication from a national focus that was focusing primarily on LGBTQ business. And so when I created Queerency, there wasn't just like a natural audience to sort of tap onto. I had to cultivate that audience. And so one of the things that I have seen shift over the past for and a half years is that the conversation around queer businesses has grown exponentially, right? Like when I started Queerency, like I had to, in some ways create that conversation on social media. But now everyone, not everyone, but it seems like everyone is having these conversations. And that was one of the goals, right? That was always, you know, the North Star was to help shine light on queer people in businesses and the work that they're doing. And so that it can like spread out beyond just the work that we do at Queerency. So that's the first thing is that more people are having conversations about queer owned businesses and entrepreneurship. There have also been some really great resources and other businesses that are focused on LGBTQ businesses or LGBTQ entrepreneurship that have been started since I started, or after I started Queerency, and certainly not taking credit for their work, but that's something else I've noticed. apps and companies like Everywhere is Queer, right? They're huge and they are doing amazing work with their app and their map and just the community that they have grown and cultivated since they launched in, I believe, 2021. Then there's platforms and apps like FAM. I believe they launched in 2023, maybe. And it's been so cool to like watch them grow. And they started as sort of a platform where you could, where they showcase LGBTQ brands. And now they have this app called fam connect, which is like a queer LinkedIn in some ways. Right. And so it's just really cool to see other people like, grow in their own ways or other businesses grow in their own ways under the umbrella of queer entrepreneurship. And then I think the third thing that I've noticed, and this is like very recent. And so I'm still sort of like working it out, like in my head and like sort of making sense of what I see. But I think that in this new era that we're in with Trump in office for the second term and the massive shifts that we're seeing in the larger society, I think that we're going to start noticing a lot of queer businesses, a lot of queer creators be a bit less online and more in person. I think that's because social media is just not safe anymore in many ways. Some of the best organizing, some of the best community building is often done offline and in person. I think time will tell, you know, over the next few years, like if I'm correct about that, but I'm already starting to see sort of people shifting away from, you know, focusing primarily online and like more towards how can we move our online audience into in-person.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, absolutely. And I think like, I think the key thread of that all is about, community, right? It's about really building that community, whether it's online, off platform, and being able to galvanize the community around a common mission. And I think that's, it's fascinating just to see how things have changed since you started QueerNC. And I think you have to take a little bit of credit at least for at least having this be introduced into the zeitgeist of queer businesses and queer entrepreneurship and, you know, Maybe you weren't the thing that inspired them, but you created the space online and contributed to that for that to exist. And I think the fact that there are new apps and new websites and resources available for queer businesses only benefits our overall community to take up space in different industries. And I think that's super important. And I'm curious, so... Looking at QueerNC, you created this platform which has continued to grow and educate people on all things business and finance for LGBTQ businesses and entrepreneurs. But you also created LGBTQ Business Week. That's amazing. So you created one platform and you're like, nope, that's not enough. I need to make another platform. And I'm really impressed with this because I think this is so necessary. And I would love for you to kind of take me back on... What inspired the creation of this business week and how did it come about?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so 2020, it's so hard to like, it feels like I've been doing this forever, but it has not been a few years. But in 2022, we really started to see this first virus of like anti LGBTQ, specifically anti trans, anti queer sentiment start to like take hold outside of like state legislatures. Right. And the way that manifested was, you know, I'd been tracking, you know, this for a while at the time, you would start to see news articles or people that I followed online or my mutuals on TikTok and Instagram. They would start to talk about being targeted by bigots for being queer-owned businesses, right? And so, you know, one place it would be a pride flag pulled down in front of their business. Another one would have a rock thrown through their windows. And then some were even getting physically assaulted outside their businesses in the parking lot. And I can't remember if it was this year or the following year, but it also transferred to... non-queer business owners who were just allies of queer people being targeted as well. And there was this lady in, I believe it was California or somewhere in the Pacific North or somewhere on the West Coast who owned Little Boutique and had a pride flag out in front. She was not queer, but she was killed, right, by an anti-LGBTQ bigot, right? And Queerency, I always try to like, there's so much horrible news online about queer people. And it's so easy to like, be overwhelmed by the doom of the scroll, right? Like, and when I talk about like attention, you know, and media, like, If all you're seeing in your algorithm and on your feed is just constant misery about being queer, that does something to your psyche, right? And so I had not been actively reporting on all of those things. horrible things that were happening to queer businesses, but I knew that I had to do something and do something in a more positive way. It's important for people to know that it was happening, but you can also turn those, for lack of a better term, lemons into lemonade by creating something more proactive. Long story short, 2022, the answer to a lot of the anti-queer owned business sentiment and harassment that we were seeing was to create LGBTQ Plus Business Week. I was shocked that no one else had done it, right? Like I went to like, GoDaddy and like all the domains were available. And like that's like when I have an idea and then I go and sometimes I like have an idea. Now I go to GoDaddy and see if a domain is available. And if it is, I'm like, OK, that's a good sign to like keep going. Right. So that, you know, the fact that no one had done it and that I just knew that there was this really pressing and growing need to support queer owned businesses. and especially around the holiday season. That's why I started it. And, you know, we've just sort of been growing it ever since. The goal is for LGBTQ Plus Business Week to be something that everyone can celebrate in their own way, sort of like pride, right? Like, you don't have to go to a pride parade. You don't have to, you know, you don't have to participate in the pride march or whatever to celebrate pride in your own way. And that's how I think of the business week is just however you want to support or celebrate LGBTQ owned businesses during that week. That's what we encourage you to do and we'll help amplify it.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, absolutely. And I'm curious, like, what are the types of programming that happens during LGBTQ business week?
SPEAKER_01:yeah so at the very beginning it was just a digital awareness campaign right so the goal was to just get people talking more about lgbtq owned businesses and the way we did that was just like create assets that people could download from our from our website and post on their own pages and you know what people did was like create discount codes for LGBTQ Business Week, or they would have special bar nights at their bar during the week, things like that. Then the next year, we decided to grow it into like an actual digital summit, right? And so that year in 2023, we had the LGBTQ Plus Business Week Virtual Summit. It was headlined by Arlen Hamilton and had like 20 or more other queer business owners and creators. a range of topics from like starting your business to scaling it and more so that was really exciting and then last year 2024 we kept the digital awareness campaign aspect of it because that would have been technically the third year but this is a you're about to get an insight about sort of the realities of business so 2022 social media digital awareness campaign 2023 social media digital awareness campaign plus a virtual summit right so the natural progression would be 2024 have an in-person event so we started planning for that you know for months know basically for a year in advance started planning and one of the things it didn't happen and one of the realities of business is and particularly being a queer business and queer media business is that in order to do big events you need some sort of major sponsorship or partnerships, and that can come from big corporations or it can come from smaller businesses. But you need funding to do larger scale events. And like many other queer businesses. Queer creators and LGBTQ focused media companies last year was tough, right, like the rise of anti we were hit with not only the continued anti-trans, anti-LGBTQ sentiment that had been going on since 2021, but then you had this anti-woke agenda, the anti-EI agenda. As a result, and I'm sure you noticed this, a lot of these corporations smaller businesses you know non-queer organizations that normally would be extremely visible during pride month or loud about their support for the communities were like completely silent and they just weren't supporting the communities anymore. And so as a result for this year's business week, we just stuck to the digital campaign because we couldn't make it work financially. So I share that one to be like transparent with listeners about, you know, the realities of doing business, right? Like it truly is like a roller coaster. You can be You can do everything right. You can have that five-year plan. You can have the right team. My team is amazing. You can have the right vision and all of the best intentions, and things may still not work out because of timing or larger macro events that have nothing to do with you, but directly impact your business. And so... Yeah, that's been the journey of the business week. We'll see what happens again this year. And I think that the last thing I'll say for this year, one of the lessons that we learned from that is that we can't rely on corporations to be partners for things like this. And so we have to rely on our own communities even more so. And I think that is going to be the goal for this year is to figure out ways to make this sustainable and accessible for our communities. Because, and one quick tangent, the reason for corporate partnerships is to make it accessible for the people that you want to come, for the audience, right? So that's something that I think often gets lost, right, in conversations. Is it like, you know, in the whole rainbow, capitalism conversation is you know we know that like these corporations are just sort of following the whims of the larger society and they're they only care about their bottom line right or i'll just say you know that i've never i've never i've never been unaware of that i've always been crystal clear that these are not these you know these corporations aren't supporting minority-owned businesses or whatever because out of the goodness of their heart. They're doing it because they see the way it looks in the larger society and they are making a bet that by latching on to social movements or just social sentiment, it will help their business. So That said, when you have corporate sponsorship, whether you're a nonprofit or you are some other business, it's to help take care of costs so you don't have to pass it on to the consumer. I've always been super conscious about charging my audience for things, the Queerency audience. And, you know, in some cases, like, that's not good because it is a business. But in other ways, like, I truly do view what the work that we do at Queerency as a service, right? Like, and I'm very aware that know this sort of idea that all queer people are fabulously rich and you know live in new york in a penthouse apartment and can travel to mykonos every summer that is not the reality that's the exception to the rule the rule is that the many of us are you know paycheck to paycheck And unfortunately, many of us, especially the most marginalized of our communities, are living in poverty. Right. And so I've always been conscious of that and not wanting to like make queerness and queerness events like a pay to play type of thing. So, yeah, that's part of the thought process as well. And, you know, we're just figuring it out in real time. Like, how do we make our work and our events sustainable while also accessible to to the queer community.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, absolutely. And I think like so many points you actually covered in that response. I think one of them I wanted to respond to specifically is around how, you know, we're seeing this anti-DEI movement, anti-woke movement and its impact on our community, both within queer businesses and just the wider society. I think that there is a lot to impact there. And I think that our community Our community is always going through some form of resistance. Sometimes it's smaller things where we have administrations that are a little bit more friendly to our community, but there's still a lot to be accomplished. And then there's administrations that are strongly adverse to our community and are actually trying to make our lives harder. And I think when businesses take such strong stances against DEI, I think they're they're missing the bigger picture of how much they're hurting their business. I think it really shows that they are really not focused on the future of their business because the reality is that our future looks more and more multicultural, diverse every single day. And if you're building a business for the last thousand years, you're not going to have customers for the next thousand years kind of thing. And it's a matter of They, you know, going with whatever is happening in the wind may seem good for today, but it's not strategic and it will hurt, you know, their bottom line. Like it's not a question. It's not a question. It is going to, and it's just a matter of time because if and when the winds flow the other direction again, and we see these businesses, you know, start to come back to our community, try to find ways that they can, you know, galvanize us again or find connection and sponsor our pride events or anything that's LGBTQ focused, they may not be met with the greatest of welcomes. And I think they need to be aware of that because we're not political pawns. We are a community of people who have dreams, passions, and are real people that want to live in peace, want to be celebrated just like everybody else. And it's definitely, as Tatiana from Drag Race says, choices. So one thing I wanted to tap into, though, that I thought was really interesting about LGBTQ Business Week is that y'all have an LGBTQ business database, which is like so impressive. Can you... Discuss that a little bit because I was going through that just being amazed at all the different business owners, the work that they're doing being very, very different. And like, where did that idea come from? And then, you know, how has it grown since?
SPEAKER_01:Sure. Yeah. I mean, it was really just sort of a very practical idea with the business week. You're like, if we're going to do, if we're going to create and promote this awareness, we need to have a way to be in contact with the business owners and to help other people, help consumers and other business owners find these businesses. Right. And so that's where the idea for the database came from, was just creating a way to not only find businesses but to be able to like showcase them on our website so yeah that's it was really just sort of a natural sort of extension of the business week and i'm glad to hear that you know you found it helpful
SPEAKER_02:yeah and i'm just curious has there been any specific success stories from that database that you are you know privy to to see how you know maybe The businesses have made connections with each other or they've been able to find funding opportunities, anything of that nature?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, like I know that like certain businesses have been able to connect with each other individually, but we often get inquiries from both queer and non-queer businesses saying, about businesses within the database, right? So for some of them, they'll ask like, hey, can you make a connection? And we'll, you know, I'll make that connection or someone on my team will. And then other times, sometimes people will write articles about queer-owned businesses, like, you know, sort of listicle roundup articles, and they'll cite the LGBTQ Business Week database as the source of their information. And so those are some of the ways that like most often we know that it's making an impact from just like the direct you know one-to-one connections that we're able to make for people and that people are able to make for themselves but also the ways in which people are referencing and citing the database in their own work.
SPEAKER_02:That's fantastic, honestly, regarding the database. I think that it's amazing that it's allowing for queer businesses to have a spotlight. It's a resource for media outlets to tap into queer business owners and queer businesses. But I guess my question to you is really around how listeners can support queer businesses in their own communities, like across the nation, online, what have you?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that's a great question. So the first is to shop them directly. As we saw with Target, a lot of queer-owned businesses were caught up in this sort of like anti-DEI rollback that has been making the news. But LGBTQ businesses have been dealing with that for like the last couple of years with Target, right? So while there are still queer owned businesses in these larger retailers, you know rightfully so a lot of people are boycotting or just taking their business elsewhere but yet these businesses still deserve your support and so the first way is to support them directly either through their websites and you can find these businesses on platforms like the lgbtq plus business week database but also everywhere is queer fam and there are lots of other sort of resources where you can source LGBTQ businesses, including, which leads to my second recommendation, local LGBTQ chambers of commerce. So I would recommend that people join or participate in their local LGBTQ chambers of commerce in their city or their state because that not only will give you a direct line to support and patronize businesses in your area but it'll also tap you into sort of larger ecosystems and conversations that are happening around queer home businesses in your state in your city etc and i think the third thing is to give business owners are people, right? And that behind the checkout on their website is a person who put so much of their life and their resources into the products and the services they're providing. And they're often under-resourced, understaffed, and under-appreciated. And so I think, especially in this new era that we're in, I think it's really important to give queer business owners and just minority business owners and small business owners in general, grace. They're going to have to be some sacrifices that are made from on the consumer end, if we are going to support small businesses directly. The Amazonification of things has a lot of us expecting to be able to order something now and it show up in two hours, literally, in some cases, depending on where you live. you know, that's not a huge sacrifice to get it in three to five business days. Right. But it is a sacrifice that we're going to have to like as consumers really think about and realize that like, you know, shopping local, shopping small and shopping direct when we shop queer is going to require us to just be, you know, Give these businesses a little more grace and to also remember that they are not these billion-dollar companies that can get it to you within a few hours.
SPEAKER_02:Right. Yeah, 100%. Awesome. Okay. So I want to now take a quick pivot here and kind of discuss the future of LGBTQ plus businesses. And I want you to put your predictor hat on and answer the following questions. And this one's more specifically around kind of consumer spending power, which LGBTQ consumers have 4.7 trillion in consumer spending power in the United States. And What would be your message to corporations and brands knowing the consumer spending power that our community has? How can they better serve our community, cater to our demographic, and be inclusive of the diversity of our community?
SPEAKER_01:You touched on this a little bit earlier, but the way I will say it is that we have a long memory. And LGBTQ consumers, our spending power is not really going to change, but what does change is our view of your brand based on how and if you stand up for our communities. And that's not just for queer-owned businesses, it's for Black-owned businesses and communities, it's for women-owned and all other minority groups. We see how and if you stand up for our communities during these tough times and it's remembered, right? But a more positive way to look at that too is that for the businesses that like, it's a double-edged sword. the businesses that do stand up for us and do stand by us, we're going to remember that too. I just bought a Costco membership the other day only because they are digging in their heels in support of diversity, equity, inclusion. When I bought the membership, they're like, what brings you here? Why are you doing it? I said, because of your stance on DEI. Right. And so, but on the same token, like I can't even look at target the same anymore. Right. Like I sort of, and I know, and this is actually a very quick aside, like a lot of brand is about the perception, like what sort of feelings does that brand have? create for you right and right for so long when i would see a target and i would see the target red and i would you know all of that i felt safe and comfortable and you know happy in some ways um but like the other day i passed by a target and i got the same vibes as like when you pass by like a Bass Pro Shop or something, right? And that is, I think, important for brands to know that you can pay lip service and you can try to walk things back, whatever. But it takes just as quickly as consumers sort of build a brand perception of your business. And that trust that they built, it can go away very quickly. And that's really hard to get back. So, yeah, I think that that's important for brands to know that our spending power, I don't think is going to change, right? Like, I think that it will, if anything, like the larger, depending on the larger macro economic issues that happen in our country, that may affect the way in which Everyone is able to spend, but like proportionally, LGBTQ people are still going to be a large part of our economy. And the question is whether or not we're going to use our money in support of your business. And that really is a decision that comes down to these corporations and how they engage with us.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, absolutely. And I'm curious, in your opinion, what do you think businesses and just brands overall who are supporting the community can do that is meaningful? Because I know you talked about kind of the rainbow washing of it all, showing up for just pride and then disappearing the rest of the year. What are things that they could actually do in a constructive way that really can substantiate their support and advocacy for our community?
SPEAKER_01:So the first thing that I always say is that Use your money to actually support queer businesses and organizations and especially queer owned businesses, because I think that a lot of corporations in the past have like checked their box by saying, hey, we donated to the Human Rights Campaign or the Trevor Project. And those are amazing. Right. Those are amazing. this is not a knock on those sort of huge LGBTQ nonprofits because they do a lot of good. That said, in our communities, there are a lot of smaller local nonprofits that could use help. And also like the businesses deserve support too. And my view is that If you support queer-owned businesses, that's also an indicator that you understand that supporting our community is not just charity. We're not a charity case. We contribute$4.7 trillion to the economy annually. LGBTQ business owners create tens of thousands of jobs every year. We deserve that support. And how does that look? It means creating joint ventures with LGBTQ businesses. It means building pipelines for people or these businesses to sell their products in your retail store. Right. It means encouraging your businesses. I mean, your customers to support these businesses. businesses throughout the year. So I always say that if you're a large beauty conglomerate, as opposed to changing your profile photo into a rainbow during Pride, you should be partnering with some of the many queer owned makeup and beauty brands during pride and helping drive revenue towards them and throughout the year right and so i think those sorts of strategic partnerships are going to be not only like necessary but those are the best like they produce the best roi return on investment for the brands because it's actually, it's meaningful engagement, but it is also, you know, avoids the, the rainbow washing of it all.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, absolutely. Um, so I want to ask you as, as a LGBTQ plus entrepreneur, what is the one piece of advice that you could give for those who are aspiring to start their own businesses and, um, What do you think would have been helpful early in your process of creating both Queer NC and LGBTQ Business Week?
SPEAKER_01:So I think the first thing is that it's important to be in community with other business owners because there's going to be a lot that you... There are a lot of... There are going to be a lot of unknown unknowns. So things that you don't even know that you don't know, right? And... when it comes to just the nuts and bolts of business, that can make or break you in some ways. Little stuff like if you file for an LLC, you need to renew it. If you pay contractors or if you make money as a contractor, you need to be paying estimated taxes every quarter. If you pay contractors, you're responsible for sending out and reporting their money to the IRS and for sending out their 1099 forms. All of these boring, annoying parts of business that no one really likes to do, And also, if you are more of a creative mind and not like someone who's really been in business before, you don't even know that you are required to do. So I think like building that sort of community by joining your LGBTQ Chamber of Commerce, by participating in like apps and platforms like fam connect everywhere's queer stuff like that and then of course like you know a plug for querency like reading our our work which often offers like resources and stuff like that i think that's going to be really important too so yeah like those are my i think my biggest thing is like in the my biggest piece of advice and what i would have told myself is like while building the business, while you are working to get it off the ground, you should also be working to like build community with other people who can help you along the way. I
SPEAKER_02:love that. That's fantastic words of advice. And then the last question of this segment, what is your key message for the future of LGBTQ businesses and how can allies play a role in supporting this vision?
SPEAKER_01:so i think that this is actually really tough because i have like a really positive prediction and also a less positive one right so the positive one is that you know the future for queer owned businesses is really bright right like you can't no matter what is going on in the larger society or the larger macroeconomic ecosystem, once the genie is out of the bottle in the sense of people are talking about queer-owned businesses now. People are actively supporting them. Queer-owned businesses are sprouting up everywhere. A lot of the statistics that we have about the 1.4 million queer-owned businesses that exist in the U.S., I don't even think that's accurate anymore. I'm pretty sure that that has grown exponentially since that study was done. So I think that in that way, the future for queer-owned businesses is extremely bright because more people are becoming entrepreneurs, more people are conscious about supporting queer-owned businesses, and you can't... you can't stop that, right? People are, no matter what you, no matter how hard you try or how hard, you know, certain forces try to stop that, this is a, it's rolling down the hill in a good way, right? Like this boulder that we have, this rainbow boulder is just like rolling down the hill. Like it's, you're not stopping it. So that's the positive side. The less positive side is that I think that we're now in an era where queer business owners are going to have to be extremely strategic and focused on sustainability. And that means things. And of course, you need to do that regardless. Right. But like, I think in this sort of, you know, fascist, anti- everything environment we have to be strategic in a way that a lot of people maybe had not thought about before and that will mean different things for different businesses right but i do think it's important to acknowledge that the ways in which we do business are not in a vacuum from the larger society, right? And so in a world in which queerness is kind of being criminalized in many ways, where queerness and especially trans people are basically being sort of, people are trying to erase them from public society and create the environments for our further persecution you're not going to be able to do business in 2025 the way you did it in 2020 right so that's just something to think about and that's just it'll mean different things for different people and for different businesses but i think it's very important to be crystal clear about the era that we're in and the major shifts that are happening and that will continue to happen and how that affects business owners and our businesses. For allies and consumers, I think that they should be aware of that as well. And they should know that queer-owned businesses are going to have to be it's not going to be business as usual. And so back to what I mentioned earlier, affording them grace, shopping with them directly, and just continuing to patronize businesses during this time is going to be more important than ever.
SPEAKER_02:Absolutely agree. And I think, you know, at the end of the day, it is about investing in our community. So it's like the more investment our allies can do to support us, the more better off we all are. It's not even just about the impact of it on the community, although that is a big part of it. It is about how that in itself creates for a more equitable world. So I think that's fantastic. Thank you, Travis, for that conversation. I think there's just so many insights from all the things that you mentioned that I think our listeners can definitely benefit from. But now I want to shift the conversation to some of our compulsory questions, which are some of the questions I ask every guest. This is kind of like a lightning round of swords. So feel free to, you could just respond to the answer. If you want to add context, we always love context here. So by all means, the first question is, what is your go-to queer anthem that never fails to get you pumped?
SPEAKER_01:I think it's going to be, this is such a cliche, but Show Me Love. by robin i think is that yes love that song yes show me love by robin i always like like that's such a i say it's like a gay litmus test if you react to that song you're probably part of the family um anyway of course it's such a good song but like i just love i love show me love
SPEAKER_02:yeah no i love that song too i'm with yeah All right, so the next question is, if you could have a queer superpower, what would it be? I
SPEAKER_01:think it's a superpower, like the queer superpower that I would want is what I think that a lot of us already have, and I think that I have, is being able to move throughout the world and in spaces authentically and not stifled by society's ideas of what it means to be a man or a woman or neither, what it means to be masculine or feminine. I think that's a superpower. Like I have, you know, often like feel bad for some of my straight friends because they're so much about how they move through the world is like policed, right? Like it was like this, right? there was this meme going around on Twitter a while back, and it was like this ever-growing list of things that straight men couldn't do without being considered, right? Yes,
SPEAKER_03:yes,
SPEAKER_01:yes. So it was like, a straight man can't eat a banana. A straight man can't, like, a straight man can't take a warm shower. You know, like, all of these... It's funny, but it's also... it's reflective of like gender roles and the ways in which we over police gender in our society. And so I think that as a queer person and an out queer person, especially, I don't, I'm not confined by that. And I also find that like society, like other people don't put those things on me. Right. So like, I can, you know, enjoy, like I can do all of these things. And they're like, well, you know, no one's like bothering me about it because I'm gay.
SPEAKER_02:Right. Yes,
SPEAKER_01:exactly. Yes.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Like, like a foodie drink specifically, like
SPEAKER_01:that is such a polarizing thing. Perfect example. That is, thank you. That is a perfect example. I remember years ago, I was at the bar with a friend who's straight and we got drunk. they had this like really great cocktail and it was fruity and it was served in like a martini glass. Right. Like, so it was like a fruity cocktail and a martini glass. Very good. Right. Like, and he, he was like, he told the bartender, he was like, can you put this in like a regular, like a regular, regular glass. He's drinking the same fruity cocktail and, but in a glass that doesn't look gay to him. I don't want to have to do that. If I'm having a fruity cocktail, and I don't drink anymore, but if I have a fruity mocktail, I want to have it in a martini glass. I think that that's the superpower. It's just being able to move through the world not confined by that, not having to worry about drinking my fruity mocktail in a boring glass
SPEAKER_02:i love it that's so true um and and for those out there i think like a glass is just a glass or cocktail is a cocktail and a mocktail like it just is what it is like the fact we have to genderize it at all it's just kind of silly do you
SPEAKER_01:know what i mean yeah
SPEAKER_02:you know for those straight men out there that do love the fruit you drinks be unapologetic about it you know if you're comfortable with your sexuality then there should be no issue around your Cup of choice, right? So for the next question I have, what is your favorite piece of queer content right now? So that could be inclusive of film, TV shows, podcasts, books, audio books, what have you. What is something that you're really loving right now that you'd love for the queerest audience to tune in for or read at?
SPEAKER_01:Okay, so I am a huge book nerd. I got my start as a book editor, and I just love books. And so one of my favorite queer authors is named Daniel Black, and he wrote this book called Perfect Peace. I think it came out, when did it come out? It came out in 2010. Okay. And it was the first time that I had ever truly like encountered like a trans character in a book. And this was like I said, this was 2010 to 15 years ago. And it completely blew my mind in the best way, right? Like, there was a pre-Perfect Piece Travers and a post-Perfect Piece Travers. And while I don't know if the character in the book would actually identify as trans or if we would consider them trans, would self-identify as trans, the book discusses, like, gender in a way that I had never really considered up until reading it. And it completely shifted my thinking. So I bring that book up because Daniel Black has a brand new book called Isaac's Song that just came out and It is a sort of like coming of age story about a black gay man in the 80s during the height of the AIDS epidemic. And so I just got it and I just started it. And I am already like... maybe 80% finished. It's so good. So Isaac's Song by Daniel Black. And if you really want to go into the archives with him, Perfect Peace by Daniel Black.
SPEAKER_02:I love that. Thank you for those book recommendations. For our book lovers out there, check those out, please. And then for the final question of our compulsory questions... What would be one piece of advice that you would give your younger queer self?
SPEAKER_01:I would tell younger Travers to you're enough, right? And I feel like that's a little cliche, but the reason I would tell my younger self that is, you know, when I first came out, I was explicitly and implicitly told that I probably should not come out because not only was it going to be hard for me to move throughout the world as an out gay man, but it would also really limit my career prospects, right? And, you know... I took that to heart and almost believed it fully for a while. But that's because I didn't see myself represented in the business media or in ways that weren't caricatures of queer life. And since then, the world you see like so many more nuanced and complex and authentic portrayals of queer people and queer life in media. And as a result, that completely changed me and like how, it did not change me, it changed how I viewed my future and so you know i would tell you know i would tell myself that you are enough that you can create a life that honors who you are and to keep going
SPEAKER_02:i love that yeah and i think you know for all of our listeners out there whether you identify as lgbtq plus or an ally I think that message of just knowing that you're enough, I think is so powerful. I don't think it's cliche because I don't think enough people know that to be the case for their own experience. You think at the end of the day, it's like we are told oftentimes in media that we are less than. So to have just the, you know, self-actualization of that I am enough and I don't need to do more. I can just come as I am, I think is so powerful. And, you know, for listeners out there, Understand that you are enough, whether you feel it or not, whether you're told that you're not, they're wrong, period. And I will tell you that right now, because you are plenty. You do not need to do anything more than what you are because it's, we are all, you know, created in the way that we are and we are fantastic and to never question that because we're queer and we're here and we ain't going anywhere. So get used to it, right? Travers, thank you so, so much for your insights, for all the work that you do for QueerNC to elevate LGBTQ businesses and entrepreneurs, the work you're doing with LGBTQ Plus Business Week. This conversation has made it clear that LGBTQ entrepreneurship isn't just about making a living. It's about economic power. It's about visibility. It's about the long-term resilience of our community. And to our listeners out there, Every dollar you spend is a vote of investment in the world that you want to see. So when you support queer-owned businesses or businesses that do support queer communities, you're not just making a purchase, you're reinforcing a network of entrepreneurs who are building a more inclusive and equitable economy and society. For those that are looking for businesses that align with your values, please, please, please visit queernc.com, lgbtqplusbusinessweek.com and make your spending count. Like all the work that Travers and his team does is, you know, it contributes to that more equitable, inclusive society. So support the work him and his team are doing, continue to follow all of the work that he does. and his team at Queer NC on Instagram and TikTok. And then for Travers' personal insights on money, media, and entrepreneurship, please follow him at Instagram at Travers Johnson. Travers, is there anything else you want to say before we head out?
SPEAKER_01:No, just thank you again, Andre. This was such a pleasure. A great way to really start this 2025. This is my first podcast of 2025. And so I'm really grateful to you for not only having me on, but for just being a light, a consistent bright light and just being so supportive. And I encourage you to just continue to shine bright and please let me know how I can support you.
SPEAKER_02:Amazing. Thank you so much, Travers. And to the listeners out there, remember, you are enough. You are fantastic. And remember to support Queer NC and LGBTQ Plus Business Week. Thanks, y'all. Thank you.
SPEAKER_00:And that's a wrap for this episode of The Queerest Podcast. Thank you for joining us on this cosmic journey through the queer universe. If today's conversation resonated with you, be sure to like, subscribe, and share it with your chosen family. Your voice helps grow the queerest community. Until next time, stay curious.