The Queerest Podcast
🚀 Incoming Transmission: A New Podcast is Landing! 🌌✨
The Queerest Podcast is your cosmic guide to the Queer Universe. Hosted by Andraé BVR, each episode takes you on an interstellar journey through queer culture, identity, and influence. From dismantling media tropes to exploring queer representation, we invite you to challenge norms and expand your horizons. So, buckle up, set your phasers to fabulous—close encounters of the queerest kind await!
The Queerest Podcast
HOLLYWOOD PRIDE: The Legacy of Queer Cinema
What makes queer cinema so enduring—and why does it matter now more than ever?
In this episode of The Queerest Podcast, host Andraé BVR is joined by legendary film critic, podcaster, and author Alonso Duralde to explore the power and legacy of LGBTQ+ storytelling on screen. As the author of Hollywood Pride: A Celebration of LGBTQ+ Representation and Perseverance in Film, Alonso takes us on a journey through more than a century of queer film history—from early silent reels and coded characters to New Queer Cinema and today’s streaming-era breakthroughs.
Together, they unpack how queer film has offered both refuge and resistance, shaped identity and culture, and battled against censorship, erasure, and commodification. This conversation isn’t just about what’s shown on screen—it’s about the people who made sure those stories were told.
Whether you're a lifelong cinephile or just discovering the joy of queer film, this episode is a celebration of the stories that shaped us—and a call to protect them.
Welcome to the Queerest Podcast, your cosmic guide to the queer universe. Hosted by Andre BVR, each episode takes you on an interstellar journey through queer culture, identity and influence, from dismantling media tropes to exploring queer representation. We invite you to challenge norms and expand your horizons. So buckle up and set your phasers to fabulous Close encounters of the queerest kind await.
Speaker 2:Greetings, cosmic Queers and Allies. I am your host, andre BVR, and this is the Queerist Podcast, your cosmic guide to the ever-expanding universe of queer culture, identity and influence. And today we are dimming the house lights and raising the curtain on a subject that's been both a mirror and a megaphone for our community queer cinema. The flickering screen has always been a battleground and a sanctuary for LGBTQ plus expression, and while many of us have found ourselves in film long before we were allowed to say it out loud, the question remains who decides which stories make it to the screen and who's making sure our stories aren't just told but remembered? Enter today's guest, alonzo Duraldi film critic, programmer, podcaster, prolific writer and now author of Hollywood Pride, a celebration of LGBTQ plus representation and perseverance in film. For decades, alonzo has helped shape how we talk about queer film, from writing for the Wrap and the Advocate to co-hosting podcasts like Linoleum, knife, breakfast, all Day, maximum Film and Deck, the Hallmark Podcasts. He is one of the rare voices who is just as fluent in high camp as he is in auteur theory, and he's built a career showing us how queer cinema isn't a niche it is the narrative backbone of cultural resistance and joy. So here's how today's journey breaks down. We'll kick things off with an incoming transmission, checking on what's lighting up the queer universe. Then we'll beam into a deep space dive with Alonzo unpacking his journey from film critique to authorship why Hollywood pride matters now and how queer storytelling continues to defy erasure. And finally we'll wrap up with the final frontier, our cosmic rapid fire round of questions. But first let's scan the queer skies and tune into what's coming through. You are now tuned into the incoming transmission, our signal check on the queer universe from culture shifts to policy moves. This is where we track what's changing and how we move through it together. Today's topic is queer cinema. So let's talk about queer film and storytelling, because we are in a moment where visibility feels fragile and platforms are quietly rewriting what is safe content the shows that gave us life canceled, mid-season.
Speaker 2:Queer characters that weren't tragic or tokenized, written out or buried under algorithms. The stories that dared to be joyful, weird, political or radically honest, pushed aside in favor of broader appeal. And it's not just oversight, it's erasure with a budget. Somewhere between test screenings and shareholder decks, queerness got deemed too risky again. But here's what the data and history shows us Queer stories matter. They reshape culture. They reframe reality and they offer generations of LGBTQ plus folks a lifeline, a mirror and a map. And they're most powerful when they reflect the full spectrum of queerness. That means leaning into intersectionality, showing us how queerness collides with race, class, gender identity, disability, immigration, status and more. Queer cinema is at its most radical and revelatory when it refuses to flatten identity for mainstream culture.
Speaker 2:My take if you want queer liberation, fund queer imagination, support the films, the shows, the creators. Champion the intersectionality. Don't just stream the stories, sustain them. And that's today's incoming transmission from the queer universe. Let's beam into our deep space dive with Alonzo. Before we enter today's deep space dive, let us zoom out for a moment and take in the scope of Hollywood Pride, a celebration of LGBTQ representation and perseverance in film Alonzo's latest work and a sweeping chronicle of queer cinema's legacy For generations.
Speaker 2:Lgbtq plus artists shaped Hollywood from the shadows, on sets, behind cameras and inside scripts, even when they couldn't live openly. But make no mistake, they were everywhere. One of the first ever sound films made in Thomas Edison's lab featured two men dancing while playing a violin. It lasted just a few minutes, but it captures one of cinema's earliest queer moments. In Hollywood Pride, alonzo maps that legacy from the pansy craze of the 1930s to the new cinema of the 90s, to the bold, brilliant storytelling of today. To the bold, brilliant storytelling of today, he spotlights not only the performers and creators who helped define Hollywood, but also the queer filmmakers who refused to be erased and insisted on telling their own stories.
Speaker 2:Alonzo is the chief US film critic for the film Verdict and co-host of the Linoleum Knife Breakfast All Day, maximum Film and Deck the Hallmark podcasts. His books include the beloved Hollywood guide have Yourself a Movie, little Christmas, returning this year with an expanded second edition. He's also the co-author of I'll Be Home for Christmas Movies and has appeared on TCM, cnn, abc and across multiple documentaries. Now let's welcome the voice behind that history, alonzo Duraldi. Welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 3:Oh, thank you so much for having me. It's great to see you.
Speaker 2:It's great to see you too and for those that don't know, I used to work alongside Mr Alonzo here at Outfest, where he was doing amazing work curating and programming the future of queer cinema at Outfest. So great to have you and let us get. Let's get into it. And I want to start off with a little bit of like your origin story, a little bit and kind of like the passion of it all kind of kicked off. So when did you first develop your love of film and how did your identity shape the way that you viewed the stories playing out on screen?
Speaker 3:I always tell the story story that I. One of the main ways that I learned how to read as a child apart from, you know, sesame street, which was brand new at the time was that I would go right to the movie listing page of the newspaper in atlanta, where I was growing up, and I could tell you what was showing in any theater in about a in a 10 mile radius from our house, even though I wasn't even really going to movies yet. I just fixated on this thing. I compare it to. There's this movie called Searching for Bobby Fischer, where a little kid goes to the park and he sees people playing chess for the first time and he comes home and immediately recreates a chessboard in his room using stuffed animals he doesn't even know what it is, but he knows that that's what he's all about and stuffed animals, like. He doesn't even know what it is, but he knows that that's all, that's what he's all about.
Speaker 3:And so that's what movies that were kind of were for me, and they've always just been my, my main area of focus. And you know, in the process of you know, growing up and reading about film, I was one of those people who would stand in the library stacks and read Vito Russo's the celluloid closet. You know I would never check it out, heaven forbid but I would. I would stay in the library and read it and and knowing about that queer history as it tied into cinematic history obviously was a hugely influential for me and, and, you know, kind of got me to to where I went, which was both, you know, working as a film critic but also, you know, working for queer film festivals.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, and I would say like that's super relatable, like as somebody who is, you know, a closeted queer youth who whenever you're at like the bookstore or the movie store and you see something that's like queer, and then you go up to it and you like look at it and like you're intrigued and like why am I so intrigued by this?
Speaker 3:Putting it back on the shelf before anybody notices.
Speaker 2:Exactly putting it back on the shield for anybody notices, exactly, and like making sure like mom and dad are not watching me while I'm doing this and you know, like carry that, but very relatable, I love that. What, what do you think drew you, though, specifically to like film criticism and programming as a profession and like how, how has your queerness influenced the way that you approach the work?
Speaker 3:it's sort of like how they tell people you know, if you, if you want to be an actor, you have to really want it so much that you don't have a plan B. You know, and I just, I never had a plan B. I, as soon as I kind of you know, siskel and Ebert's show their original PBS show debuted when I was like eight, and so I think the idea of like wait, this is a job, you can do this for a living. You know, once that took hold I was like all right, well, that, that's, that is what I want to do.
Speaker 3:And then, you know, as far as like film festivals, when I was, it kind of started when I was in college. I was the main programmer. We had an on-campus cinema. We this was in the era right before you could get cable tv on campus, so the cinema was still a big deal and people went to the movies a lot, and so that kind of gave me a rudimentary understanding of like scheduling things and you know doing little, you know putting putting things together that made sense, or you know like programming over the course of like several months and what that would look like, and and then also like how to write short, punchy blurbs that made people want to come see the movies. So all that stuff wound up becoming very valuable later when I when I started working for, for festivals, and you know, as far as, like my queerness goes, I mean, I think sure that that will that has shaped my taste in various ways, but also I think it's just, you know, I think, in the arts, whether you're you're, whatever your, your orientation is, or or your, your identity, you know you should always be curious and you should always, be like, interested in voices that are not yours.
Speaker 3:You know, uh, one of the things I always loved about Outfest is whoever was running the show would, when they would give their opening night speech.
Speaker 3:It's always like you know what, if you're a gay man, go see a movie about, like lesbians or trans people, you know. If you're a lesbian, go see a movie like you know, like see movies about people that are not you. And that's what I think is so great about cinema in general is that you get to be privy to conversations that you would never get to listen to. You get to witness lives that would never cross your path, and and, and you know it, lives that would never cross your path and and and you know it's the, the. The old Ebert line about cinema is a machine that creates empathy, you know, and and at its best I think it it it lets us in on lives that we would never know anything about, but it also kind of provides those points of connection where realize, oh, we have this in common, even though we're completely different than where we're from and how we live and all that other stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I totally feel that I've taken that like that note from like the office programming team about like exploring the movies and shows and films that like are not part of your identity. I think that's so important because it allows you, like you said, to really get outside of your own perspective. You allow yourself to have your world grow in a way that, like you would have never otherwise probably had the opportunity to. And like for me, like that is still something that I hold true to, like the way I consume, you know, media specifically, and like I want to see these other stories. I want to understand, like the poses of the world or, you know, just different, different concepts, different ideas, different ideas, different people. That like I think it allows me to have a much more expansive perspective of, like what the world looks like and also what our community looks like in general, because we're all so different, we have different identities, different struggles, and I think, like being able to see that stuff is not only powerful for, like those who are being represented, but those who are receiving the information and understanding that they would have otherwise not been able to do. So I want to actually now get into your book, because this book and I told you this before we even started.
Speaker 2:This book is phenomenal.
Speaker 2:Like you are a prolific writer and you do brilliant writing, but like I love this book so much not only this book so much, not only for the visuals, not for the way it's structured, but like it is just so well written.
Speaker 2:The way it's allows you to go through the different decades of queer cinema, from the early times of thomas edison's lab to the modern day filmmakers and creators and how like our genres have shifted and changed.
Speaker 2:Like you have outdone yourself, sir, and I think you should be proud of this. Like I do, literally like my new favorite book that I'm gonna be like bring over to like friends so that they can see this and like dive in. Because it's just like there's so much information and it's like it's a part of our history as a community that like yeah, this is this is required reading like legit. I think this needs to be in curriculum for for students, because it's like there's so much these stories there's so much to learn from, like how we have we as a people have progressed ourself in society and in culture, but also just like the evolution of how we've done it and and the approach that they've taken, and it's just so, so beautiful, so a major that so. But like I want to know, like, why did you feel like this was the right time specifically to write this book in the way that you did?
Speaker 3:actually it was. It was pitched to me tcm has worked with running press and and I had done the, the hallmark book with with running press, I'll be home for christmas movies. And so they reached out to me and they had already done Donald Bogle's Hollywood black, which you know it was turned into a mini series this year wonderfully by by Justin Simeon, and they had done a loose raises book, viva Hollywood, which was focused on, you know, the Latino, hispanic presence in the film industry. So this was sort of next up for them was like, all right, let's do the queer one. And they came to me with it and I was thrilled to to like come up with a, with a pitch for it.
Speaker 3:And you know, it's that thing where I thought, oh yeah, I know this, I got this, it's fine, I, I've, I've been, I've been studying this for years, I've been trying to keep up with this.
Speaker 3:I, I know all about it and you know so. So, yeah, so I learned a lot while doing it and and and thank you for for pointing out about the structure, because nothing, no art, ever happens in a vacuum. And I thought, specifically, if we're going to talk about LGBTQ plus cinema, we have to talk about LGBTQ plus history and so, but the beginning of each section, where we're at different decades, I felt it was important to let people know, like here's, the context of what's going on in the world, like here's, you know the the Weimar Republic giving way to the Nazis burning down Magnus Hirschfeld's library. Here is the McCarthy era, and you know all queer people being targeted as potential communists. Here's Stonewall. Here's AIDS. Here's you know all of these things, and so I like to think that that's giving people an idea of, like, what made these movies pop up at the precise moment that they did yeah, absolutely, and it's to that point.
Speaker 2:It's like it's a reflection of the time and how the artists of that time and creators reflected back what was happening to them in their real life experiences, and so it's like exactly time capsule, but it's also like a message around what was happening and how they responded to it. I love that.
Speaker 3:It's like dispatches from the front, you know? Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2:Exactly and obviously. Your book, you know, traces more than a century of film and obviously started with the Edison company test reel. What are some like key trends or patterns, just like top line of that you saw over that time period that evolved for queer cinema and representation?
Speaker 3:Well, like, I think, a very big deal for how queer characters were represented and queer stories were told or not told. You know, you have the Hays Code happening in the early 30s and that is this very sort of draconian statute where studios were afraid of local censorship boards and of local sort of like. You know, this project just was going to decide he was going to like, chop this part out of the movie if they found that objectionable. So they decided to like have these rules, were like okay, we can't. You know, we can't have a man or a woman on a bed unless one of them has their foot on the floor. You know that. We can't have, you know, sex out of marriage. We can't. Show drug use, we can't. And one of the categories was sex perversion and that was this blanket ban on any kind of realistic, literal depiction of lgbtq plus characters. So then it becomes a thing of like well, what can we slip in? That? The care that the censors aren't going to get that like, audiences who get it will get it, but other people will be like oh well, that guy sure is flamboyant, you know. So you know, it's kind of fascinating to look at like these stealth queer characters that are popping up in Hollywood movies in plain sight but sort of like oh, he's a sissy or she's, she's so tough, you know whatever. So so that kind of thing was happening. And then you know whatever. So so that kind of thing was happening.
Speaker 3:And then you know, you look at how you know the, the, the rise of sort of American indie cinema in the sixties and seventies, of people like John Cassavetes, you know, who were kind of making movies outside of the studio system, give way to people like Arthur Bresson Jr, who I think is a fascinating figure, cause here's a guy who is making like queer documentaries and queer narrative films and he's also an adult filmmaker and so he's making you know what is technically pornography, but even in that sphere he is telling queer stories. And in you know, the late sixties, early seventies, even with the lifting of the production code and the, the, the, the erasure of the production code and the, the, the erasure of the, the hayes office rules like mainstream hollywood was not yet ready or interested in telling queer stories. So yes, pornography was pornography, but it also showed like gay men living in big cities and like having lives and careers and relationships and that kind of thing, and so that kind of fills this gap between, you know, complete disappearance out of mainstream movies and like the sort of slow acceptance of like, well, I guess we can give the heroine a gay best friend as long as he's funny, you know. So just little things like that along the way. And then obviously AIDS hits and you know what tiny little progress was being made in Hollywood gets shoved completely backwards.
Speaker 3:And then that gives way to the new queer cinema of the early 90s which is very sort of angry and radical and often experimental kind of work. And because it's getting it's winning awards at Sundance and it's getting great reviews and people are flocking to see these movies because there's nothing else queer in the culture to see these movies, because there's nothing else queer in the culture. You know Christine Vachon, you know the legendary producer, talked about how a movie as difficult and experimental as Poison would never have been a hit later. But coming out in like the early 90s where there was just nothing on the landscape, queer audiences flocked to that movie because it was queer, you know. And so and then once those movies start making money, then you start seeing like, oh well, what if we do kind of like cute mainstream rom-coms that happen to be about queer couples and you know.
Speaker 2:So things just kind of one thing rolls into the next thing rolls into the next thing yeah, no, I I've noticed that too and I like, I think, from from my work at outfast and just being around programmers who are just like so deeply, like versed in queer cinema, like I learned so much from you, I learned so much from, like Cheryl and Daniel and Mike and Lucy and and, and you know all, all of the people, it was just so great, I think, like for me, seeing that evolution I think is so interesting just to be, you know, at a time where queerness was much more stigmatized, much more demonized, it was, was criminalized in places.
Speaker 2:Like to see that evolution to where we're at now. And I think like there's still a lot of gaps with queer cinema that definitely need to be filled. We need to be more expansive in our storytelling. I think it shows that progress that's happening within society and culture that is promising and is exciting. And it shows that like we're more than just like these negative stereotypes that a lot of people have towards us and we're, you know, we're human.
Speaker 3:What a concept, right and again like, look, stereotypes come from somewhere you know and, and there you can tell stories about characters like that and be true and smart and and empathetic. And I, you know, it's sort of like the whole thing. I remember in the early 90s when everybody and I, you know, it's sort of like the whole thing. I remember in the early nineties when everybody was mad about, you know, silence of the lambs and basic instinct, and rightly so, because that's what all we were getting. And I'm like, look, queer villains Great yes, like we can be the worst, we can be treacherous and evil and all that stuff, but like we need to be part of a, you know, part of this complete breakfast, complete breakfast.
Speaker 2:You know you need a balance of all kinds of queer characters because we represent all kinds of people oh, completely like, literally, that this could literally be its own episode, just about like queer coded villains, like they're so sure even from like the animated stuff, like the jafar or like ursula being like your generation, I think, scar from the lion king exactly definitely yeah exactly, but it was always interesting because, like when I would watch those, those, those individuals or those characters within these films, I was like, why am I intrigued by them?
Speaker 2:like why is there stirring happening? You know what I mean. So for me it's like now knowing, knowing that information, and even like I was just watching peewee as himself the other day and I'm so impressed with like I I could see what he was doing when I was watching, even when I was younger, but like to get confirmed and to understand that he himself was part of our community. I think was so. It gives it a totally new life and I actually literally watched Pee Wee's Big Adventure last night in preparation for this, so I felt very, very ready for this.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean, pee Wee Herman was a very subversive character and, I think, really got away with a lot under the guise of like, oh, it's comedy, it's for kids, it's this character. But as a character he was really like challenging a lot of perceptions of like, what is what is a man? You know, what is masculine behavior? What does a hero look like? And yeah, I mean, you look at Pee Wee's Playhouse and I mean that show is so playing around with like gender and and and all kinds of things in a way that is perfectly kid friendly, you know, but at the same time, like, I think, really expansive in its notion of of how people behave and how they get to be, and so, yeah, stuff like that where you're kind of slipping it under the radar and maybe a lot of viewers are only getting it at this level. But if you're, you know, if it speaks to you, you're like, oh, I see what we're doing here, you know, and more of that please.
Speaker 2:Like literally, yeah, I just I loved his character specifically because it's like I saw elements of myself in him, self in him, and I think that's so much more resonant with me and, like I, there's a times where I feel more butch, there are times where I feel more femme. There's like it's just so like it's there's the spectrum of my identity and being able to see somebody who embrace their, you know, feminine, effeminate side, I think that is like so cool as somebody who was, you know, growing up and, you know, figuring out my identity, and I try to understand, sure, I mean. So I love that about that and rest in peace. Paul Rubens, cause he really, he really did a big one.
Speaker 3:Love that. He truly was a rebel and a loner.
Speaker 2:Exactly Good reference. I love that. I want to know now like what was like that first onscreen moment?
Speaker 3:for you that made you feel seen as a queer viewer Hard to say.
Speaker 3:I mean, like I definitely, you know, I came up with like the sort of and I later got to interview him for the Advocate, which was great, but like Charles Nelson Riley on the Match Game, I think was something that I really clued into like okay, I like this guy and he's funny and he's smart and he's not taking any guff and he's being very himself, you know, smart and he's not taking any guff, uh, and he's being very himself, you know.
Speaker 3:So like that sort of paul lind, you know, kind of rip taylor, generation of of like outrageous, you know, funny men on tv, definitely. I remember, uh, when I was in like junior high, a friend of mine's parents took me to see polyester oh, uh, john waters polyester which was definitely like not a movie. I think my parents would have been thrilled that I was going to see at that age. But I remember there's like a moment where divine's character has this sexual fantasy about like a pizza delivery guy and I'm thinking like wait, that's a dude, and then that's another dude grinding on that dude, and huh, and I just sort of like stored that away for a very long time.
Speaker 2:I love that. Yeah, like for me, like when I I think I saw it was first movie that like, really like, connected with me as a queer viewer, was like Rocky four picture show, which I think is a lot of sure, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:For a lot of people, because it's like, if there's just so much stuff happening there tim curry being the brilliant dr frankenberger and like it was just like so good the way that the music was, the dancing, the time warp, like all of it it just like it didn't. I didn't know what to do with those feelings at the time. I think when I first saw it you know what I mean I was just like what is?
Speaker 3:that movie is so many people's gateway drug until, like, I don't know what I'm feeling now, but it's something, and there's of the million things that are going on in this movie, I'm relating to a chunk of them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, exactly, yeah, no, that movie is just amazing. I love those midnight screenings, too, that they do like that's, and the fact that it still has such a cult following and still like, yeah, yeah, it resonates with so many people, so I love that that it is. It is still in like in active theatrical release 50 years later, which says so much about like why you know the, the impact of it and the power of cinema, and how, years decades later, can really still resonate with so many people in so many different ways.
Speaker 3:Which is like that's awesome, yeah, and I think it's like it's become this sort of rite of passage where, for high schoolers and college students, and you know, yes, you can stream it and yes, you can own it on Blu-ray, but it is the thing about going to the place and having that experience and seeing it with the other people and being in the dark and yelling at the screen and dressing up, and all of that stuff becomes this, like I said, it's a, it is a legitimate rite of passage in our in our society completely agree and I want to, I want to see, like, what is your opinion on, like the role that queer cinema plays, not just invisibility, but like in transformation, both like personally and like politically, I would say well, you know, I think there's a real power in in seeing yourself represented.
Speaker 3:you know, whatever it is about you that it is, whether it's about your ethnicity, whether it's about your nationality or your religion or whatever else and so, yeah, I think for queer people, there's something about seeing yourself in a movie that makes it real. You know, it's not even just like, oh, I'm not the only one, but it's like no, this is a, this is a thing in the world that exists and it is captured on film. And so I know that, like it, it it's really out there and and and maybe I can't address it with within myself yet, Maybe I can't tell other people about it yet, but I know it's there because I saw it in a movie, you know, and so, yeah, I think that's. I think in a lot of ways it it in some way gives permission for people maybe who don't feel like they have it. And, and you know, I think it even it gives the idea of like I'm allowed to be attracted to not even just the mechanics, like I'm allowed to be attracted to another dude, but like I'm allowed to be attracted to not even just the mechanics, Like I'm allowed to be attracted to another dude but like I'm allowed to be attracted to whatever the subcategory is, because it's like it's it's presented in a film and there's something about the gaze of the camera that that affords a legitimacy to things and I think it really can open up people's perspectives.
Speaker 3:And I think it's also you know, you know I always go back to you know Obama changed his mind about marriage equality because Biden pushed him into it, and Biden changed his mind about marriage equality because he watched Will and Grace, you know. So I think that I bet, I would like to think that, for a lot of parents maybe, who think like, oh God, my kid is queer and I'm really upset about that and I'm worried about that and I'm worried about that and I don't know what kind of life they're going to have that they can see films and think like, okay, well, there is a life and there is. You know, there are possibilities, and it's not just my worst fears about every terrible thing that I think society is going to do to them. You know, I think it provides perspective for everybody, for queer people and non-queer people alike, to sort of understand the place that queer people occupy in the world yeah, thousand percent and slight will and grace, tangent, because all good conversations require one.
Speaker 2:But that show I think like I'm glad so much that joe biden watched that, because I think if he hadn't, who knows where a lot of other stuff would have netted out. But like that show, one that is something I probably go to sleep to every night with my husband. We put that on and set the sleep timer on and then like set and forget it, but like that show, I still watch it all the time. I think there's just so many elements of it, that stuff that's a little dated and problematic, but I think there's a lot of stuff that is so representative of the time, the way that these characters existed, the way that you know just understanding what it's like to be gay in New York in that time period.
Speaker 2:I just I love those characters so much and I love how much it helped me like accept my identity and I think that's that's the power of like queer media in general. It's like you're able to see it and you're able to verify that it's not just in your head, it's like we're real and it's like it's okay to be gay. And I think like that show did a great job of like showcasing those characters you know going through their development of their identity and like the different parts of the community in a really fun, lighthearted way. That like really resonated with me, and obviously Joe Biden, so you know, yeah, I mean it's.
Speaker 3:you know, it's a portrait of being gay, white and wealthy in New York in the 2000s. Exactly, but you know it's a start. It's a start, Exactly.
Speaker 2:And I think it gave space for other you know queer projects to expand upon that narrative and explore different things that were not just so singular and limited in kind of what they were doing. So, yeah, shout out to Will and Grace Love you, to the cast and the creators of that. Okay, so would love to talk about now, like the overall, like industry insights and trends that you've noticed as you did the research for this book, and specifically like are there genres you think that queer filmmakers are actively reshaping now? Where do you think the state of the queer cinema is right now?
Speaker 3:I think if we can learn anything from, like I said, the, the, you know, aids really became this rallying point of you know. I think it it got a lot of, a lot of people who were in the industry to kind of start coming out more and being more vocal. Right, you look at people like Stephen Stucker from the airplane movies. You look at Patton from Nightmare on Elm Street 2. And again, I think it inspired the silence and the active homophobia of that period, really inspired a wave of filmmakers and, as awful as things are right now, particularly for the trans community, but really for all of us in the LGBTQ plus community, I think that it is also inspiring, you know, and I part of me wishes it weren't, but it is, you know it is inspiring, you know, artists to get out there and be more queer and be more vocal and more angry, because you know we, we can't rely on the government, we can't even rely on corporations, I think.
Speaker 3:I think in the nineties and the angry because you know we can't rely on the government, we can't even rely on corporations. I think in the 90s and the 2000s there was this thing of like oh look, they did a rainbow logo for June Isn't that great, like, oh look, they've got a float in the parade. And, like this year, we're seeing, like you know, a lot of people pulling out of parade sponsorship because they don't want to make trump mad. You know target, doing like little tiny rainbows at the edge of a beige. You know blouse, like it's pride, everybody you know. And then they didn't even bother to write the copy for the pride label I saw that I was like what?
Speaker 3:yeah, so so we can't, we cannot rely on, like these fair weather folks.
Speaker 3:And so you know, I think that you know this is a moment where queer film festivals are more important than ever, where supporting queer artists is more important than ever, and I think shows like this are great about like giving a megaphone to people in the community who were out there doing work.
Speaker 3:You know, I think, certainly you know, I'm finding a lot more trans filmmakers who are out there getting their stuff done, even if it's like micro budget movies. You know, like filmmakers like Alice Mayo McKay are out there doing these cool like horror films and stuff that if that, when, when disney and whoever else decides okay, maybe we're not gonna put this tertiary queer character into a superhero movie anymore because it might offend somebody. Like they were never gonna help you, they were never gonna break any barricades for you, they were gonna pay us lip service and and like, hopefully, try and make a little money off our backs by throwing us the tiniest of crumbs. But, like, if you have a non-profit queer film festival in your city, go support it. If you have. You know, if you know about filmmakers who are like renting their movies on vimeo, go watch them. Like you know, do what you can to make queer art happen, because we can't rely on anybody else.
Speaker 2:Yeah, a thousand percent, and I think it's like I can't remember which person said this, but they were basically saying to support all queer media, whether it's films, shows, podcasts, books, whatever it is because we need to be able to show to these industry leaders that there is a desire to see these types of stories, there is a desire to you know, consume and share and discuss all these things, and if we don't show up for the stuff that maybe it's something that maybe you don't want to see, you may miss out on things that you could see, that they could have given funding for. That would have been like something that you would have loved. You know what I mean. That's so like. You know what I mean. That's so like.
Speaker 3:You know what I mean To do that I'm a big believer in voting with your dollar, but I think also. I think there's this you know, we, we can't rely on the gatekeepers to decide like, okay, I guess, since this gay thing made money, we'll put money into that lesbian, lesbian thing. Like cut out the middleman, like go out there and find the queer authors, the queer filmmakers, the queer musicians, and you know like you can support them directly. You know you can. You can buy their stuff, you can buy their merch, you can subscribe to their Patreons, whatever it is.
Speaker 3:And I think that it is incumbent upon us to do that, because you know, all the people who wanted to sponsor parades in 2024, who decided they weren't going to sponsor parades in 2025, can all go kick rocks and and and so we, we've got to be there for each other because we are a community and we have things to say, and we have things to say to each other, and so we need to support that. And if larger corporations want to underwrite that and they realize that there's money to be there, great fine. I'm not against corporate product. Hachette put out my book, but I think the last year and a half has shown how quickly people that we thought were going to support us, as corporate entities can just decide not to.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like that, like that, it's ridiculous.
Speaker 3:And I want to.
Speaker 2:I'm curious with for your, you know as, as somebody who is an avid lover of cinema and, you know, in my opinion, a huge expert in queer cinema like what are the stories you think we need to hear more of? Like, what are more creative risks you think filmmakers and creators should be taking in order to push cinema in a direction that feels, you know, impactful or allows for a more expansive storytelling experience?
Speaker 3:I mean not for me to say really. I think that's one of the cool things about art is that, like people create something like, oh wow, I didn't know I needed that, but I totally do, you know I. For years, when people would ask me you know who's a, a gay historical figure that needs to have a biopic made about them? You know, for years, years, my answer was bayard rustin. And now we have one. Yeah, like you know I.
Speaker 3:I think there's so much of our story that needs to be told and reiterated and I think we've only just scratched the surface about really talking about AIDS and how it was so widely ignored, how it was the devastating impact that it had on the community. There have been a handful of films, but I think there's a lot more stories there to be told. Yentan's 1985, I think, is a great one. The French film BPM.
Speaker 3:But you know there's a lot to talk about and a lot to talk about like, not just how it affected, you know, like white dudes. You know like there's, it was devastating to communities of color. It was devastating, you know, to the African subcontinent. You know there's a lot of different ways to approach that. But yeah, I just I want to see, I want to learn stuff that I didn't know about, like cause, as much as I tried to pour into this book, there are tons of corners of queer history and and important figures and and like turning points in the culture or in the law or whatever that I don't know a lot about and and I want those stories told because I think we should know that stuff as well as we know. Like I don't know, like you know, how many movies about world war ii have we seen? At this point, there should be that many about queer history I agree.
Speaker 2:No, that's, that's a fair point. That's a fair point. I want to now kind of shift a little bit to discuss your. You know, beyond the book, that you just created hollywood pride, which again I cannot say enough good things about because it was just so amazing. But you've also written have yourself a movie. Little Christmas 101 Must See Movies for Gay Men, and I'll Be Home for Christmas Movies. Within that context, how does Hollywood Pride reflect your evolution as a cultural writer?
Speaker 3:Well, I mean, 101 Must See Movies for Gay Men was a book that I did a long time ago when I was working at the Advocate and it was, and my main impetus was, you know, we would have these interns in the office who were in their early twenties and they seemed unaware of any movie made before the Matrix. And so, you know, and I felt like I was super old at the time, I was in my thirties, I was like, are you what you know? So I felt like I had to make this list of like you know how, has no one told you that you should watch whatever happened to baby Jane or show girls or, or, you know, victim or whatever? And it's you know. I mean I look back at it now and I'm like, girl, calm down, I grew, grew you to tell anybody what they need to be watching. But I just thought it was sort of like a fun little list of things.
Speaker 3:And so this one was a lot of fun to do and, I think, really illuminating, because we've had, like Vito Russo's, the Celluloid Closet, which is about cinematic representation of queer characters, and we've had William Mann's Behind the Screen, which is about, you know, the queer people working in the industry, behind the scenes, the way people didn't know about, and so this was kind of like what if we put it all in one book? You know, us on screen, us off screen, all of the ways in which queer people have been central to the evolution of cinema as we know it, you know. So that was a real blast. And so, between you know, I always joke now like if, because my niche is queer film and Christmas movies, you know, june and December I have them on lockdown.
Speaker 2:That's amazing and like with this particular book, like what was, what was the hardest part, you would say, compared to like the previous books that you've written before.
Speaker 3:Uh, this one, I mean, the hardest part, I think, was just keeping to the word count. You know, I had I had something like and I god, I can't even remember now, but it was. It was, you know, not nearly as long as I really needed to try and cover everything. Like I think I even say in the book like look after 1990, if I don't include, like your favorite movie or filmmaker, like sorry, all bets are off. Uh, you know, but but yeah, just trying to to to wrap my arms around 130 years of movie making within a certain you know word count was like daunting, but but I managed it yeah, you did.
Speaker 2:You're dead. What I wanted to like kind of discuss a now discuss a little bit about you're a prolific writer. You're a prolific podcaster. You were part of Linoleum Knife Breakfast All Day, maximum Film Deck, the Hallmark podcast. How has podcasting helped you expand conversations around queer film and mainstream cinema?
Speaker 3:I think what's great about podcasts is that you really can shape them however you want, you know. So, like linoleum knife is a movie where my husband and I talk about new movies, but it's also us talking about, like, what's in the oven and you know when are those just going to be talking about stuff? Um, and also because, like it's our show, we can go as obscure as we want, like dave loves, nothing more than to talk about, you know, a three hour filipino movie that's showing in two theaters, maybe you know. And we'll also talk about, like, you know, thunderbolts next to that, you know. So it it whatever we want to do. And so it gives us the license to talk about smaller queer films as they pop up, because we get to set the agenda there.
Speaker 3:And Maximum Film, the whole point of that show, the sort of tagline, is it's a movie podcast that isn't hosted by three straight white guys. So there's me, who is the queer white guy, you know. We have Drea Clark, who's a woman, who's a festival programmer, is a producer, you know. And we have Kevin Avery, who is a black comedian and, you know, cultural observer. So we're able to talk about smaller niche movies when we feel like it. But we can also look at a movie like Thunderbolts from the perspective of a queer guy, a black guy and a woman. You know, and you're going to hear about that movie in a different way than you're going to get from a lot of other podcasts.
Speaker 2:That's amazing and I'm curious, like just going back to Linoleum Knife, like what was the thing that inspired y'all to create a podcast together, you and your husband Dave? Like what, what? How that's happened.
Speaker 3:So, wow, okay, this is, this podcast turns 15 this year. So way back in 2010, I was popping up on two different cable shows. There was a there used to be a network called current that was owned by Al Gore, you know, and they had the rottenten Tomatoes show and I was one of their regular critics. And then, briefly, on IFC, there was a show called the Grid. That was all like sort of like little quick bite nuggets about different pop cultural stuff. So in the course of about two weeks both shows got canceled. And I just remember coming home one day and being like I want to be on something that only I can cancel.
Speaker 3:And Dave and I had done some other people's podcasts. Our friend gray Drake had a show at the time called the popcorn mafia and we were like, and I was like I want to do a podcast and he goes, you didn't want to do it at first. And then he was like I'll do it as long as I don't have to be on camera. I'm like, no, no, it'll just be audio and whatever. And so, grudgingly, you know he did it and then it wound up being something I think we really enjoyed doing.
Speaker 3:And then, when we started doing a Patreon, it actually became like a significant chunk of our annual income, you know. So, thankfully, like it all worked out in a way that you know we got in kind of early, you know, and you know we're never going to be a gigantic podcast, but we have a very dedicated audience. It's a small one, but like they really like what we do and they're willing to pay for extra shows that we do, and so, yeah, yeah, podcasting, I think, has been a really great opportunity, especially as so much of print media and even online media has been collapsing.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 3:You know it is a constant refrain from all the film critics I know, except for, like, the precious few of them who, like, have a steady gig at, you know, one of the remaining trades or one of the last newspapers that's still standing For a lot of us, you know.
Speaker 2:know, we had to kind of diy it, and podcasting is a great way to do that yeah, absolutely, and I think it's I'm I'm most amazed, honestly, with the fact that you have been able to be on so many different podcasts and, like you, still have so much to say and it's all this brilliant and interesting discourse and, like you're, you're an encyclopedia of information and that's why I always appreciate about you because, like I know, if I have a conversation with alonzo, I'm going to learn something, and I love learning.
Speaker 3:Yeah I am someone who doesn't shut up, so I think this I found my medium, you know?
Speaker 2:yeah, exactly I love that. For the the end of this segment, I wanted to ask what is one thing that you hope that readers take away from Hollywood Pride?
Speaker 3:Probably just the idea that we've been part of this from the get-go, like Justin Simien wrote me a really beautiful blurb where he talked about how it's not like we have to establish oh, cinema is ours too. It's like no, no, no, cinema is ours. Like we, we've molded this thing from the from the get go and we've been involved in its crafting and in on screen. You know presentations and and what you know being a matinee idol is, or what being a character actor is, or what being a director or an editor or a you know all of these things. Queer people shaped that stuff. If anything, non-queer people need to carve out their little place and their stake in movies, because it's ours, baby. We've been there the whole time and we've been essential into turning it into what it is now.
Speaker 2:I totally agree, alright. Well, that brings us to the final. Yeah, I totally agree, all right. Well, that brings us to the final frontier, our signature closing segment where we ask every guest the same five questions. To wrap things up Some fast, takes some real talk and a peek at what makes Alonzo Alonzo Answer as quickly or as thoughtfully as you'd like. There are no wrong, only wrong people Just kidding Into it. This first one, we're going to take a little deviation from film and actually tap into a little bit of music. But what is your go-to queer anthem that never fails to get you pumped?
Speaker 3:I will make the case that, no matter what happens from. Yentl is a hell of a queer anthem, yeah, and somebody needs to remix it I, I think into a dance floor jam. But you look at the lyrics and it is so much about somebody refusing to remain in the closet and who's not going to lie about themselves to themselves anymore. It's a great song.
Speaker 2:I love that. That's a great one. If your LGBTQ identity came with a tagline, what would it say? This bitch has opinions. Um, if you could have one queer superpower, what would it be? And it has to be a queer superpower, it can't just be a regular one like flying my raised eyebrow would come with a laser beam.
Speaker 2:I love that. Next question I have for you is what is your favorite piece of queer content right now that you are obsessed with Could be film, a show, a book, podcast, just anything that you would love to share with other people that you think is required reading or required consuming.
Speaker 3:The great Alison Bechdel has a new book out. You probably know her as the creator of Fun Home, which was turned into the Tony winning Broadway musical. She also for years did a great comic strip called Dykes to Watch Out For, and the characters from Dykes to Watch Out For pop up in her new book Spent. And another character in that book is also Alison Bechdel. So it's always exciting when she's got something new out and it just hit shelves. So that should be your pride month. The required reading I love that.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much. And just to wrap this part of the segment, where can folks find your work and get their hands on hollywood pride?
Speaker 3:uh well, hollywood pride is available wherever books are sold. So please, you know, order, get them to order it for you if you need to Get your library to order a copy if they don't have a copy, and get your library to get the audio and e-book versions as well and enjoy them. On the Libby app, it's all good, but you can also buy it in any of those three formats as well. If you want to read my stuff, I do reviews at thefilmverdictcom and, as Andre pointed out, you can hear me on the Linoleum Knife, maximum Film Breakfast All Day and Deck the Hallmark podcasts, and I've got a bunch of stuff happening in June that I won't bombard you with now but it'll all be in the show notes.
Speaker 3:But I'm doing a three-week series at the American Cinematheque, at the Los Feliz 3. I'll be screening 35 millimeter prints of the camp classic Cobra Woman and of the wonderful 90s trans movie Ma Vie en Rose and Caden. Mark Gardner, the co-author of the great book about trans cinema, corpses, fools and Monsters, is showing a new remastered print of the Hollywood lawn 1972 musical Scarecrow in a Garden of Cucumbers. I'm also doing. I'm introducing a screening of Victor Victoria at Vidiot's on June 7th and I'm also part of an author's panel. I believe it's called the Pride Live Series. And and and and and tune into TCM. On June 23rd, dave Karger and I will be co-hosting four pansy movies from the 1930s we're showing Call Her Savage, the Gay Div, midnight and professional sweetheart, so check those out as well.
Speaker 2:Amazing alonzo. Well, the tldr here is alonzo is booked and busy and we are not going to apologize for that. So that's great, it's june alonzo, thank you, thank you. Thank you so much for joining us and helping us be at queer cinema, not just as a genre but as a legacy.
Speaker 2:Hollywood Pride, in my opinion, is more than just a film book. It's a time capsule, it is a call to action and it's a reminder that we've always been here, even when the credits didn't name us. Queer film doesn't reflect like literally it really. Queer film doesn't just reflect who we are. It shapes how we see ourselves, how the world sees us and how the future gets written.
Speaker 2:And whether it's in the shadows of classic hollywood or the spotlight of today's streaming era, our stories persist, they evolve and they matter, and cinema gives queerness dimension. It validates joy, it validates grief, it validates rage, it validates love, it rewates grief, it validates rage, it validates love, it rewrites endings that were once tragic and centers lives that history tried to erase. And that's why a book like Hollywood Pride another product placement right here is essential. It preserves and it celebrates the films that have gave us a mirror of when the world gave us closets. So here's your mission Support queer filmmakers, listen to queer podcasters, go to queer film festivals, get a copy of Hollywood Pride, watch what the algorithm will not show you and finish a film that resonates, share it, pass it along like, talk about it. We need to talk about it more and not less, because queer film isn't just isn't niche, it is revolutionary. And with that said, again, alonzo, I thank you so much for this conversation, I appreciate you so much, and until next time, folks stay curious.
Speaker 1:And that's a wrap for this episode of the Queerest Podcast. Thank you for joining us on this cosmic journey through the queer universe. If today's conversation resonated with you, be sure to like, subscribe and share it with your chosen family. Your voice helps grow the Queerist community. Until next time, stay curious.