The Queerest Podcast
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The Queerest Podcast is your cosmic guide to the Queer Universe. Hosted by Andraé BVR, each episode takes you on an interstellar journey through queer culture, identity, and influence. From dismantling media tropes to exploring queer representation, we invite you to challenge norms and expand your horizons. So, buckle up, set your phasers to fabulous—close encounters of the queerest kind await!
The Queerest Podcast
THE DRU PROJECT: From Pulse to Purpose
After losing her close friend Drew Leinonen in the Pulse Nightclub shooting, writer and strategist Sara Elizabeth Grossman co-founded the DRU Project to continue his vision of a world where queer youth are safe, supported, and empowered.
In this episode of The Queerest Podcast, host Andraé BVR speaks with Sara about transforming grief into advocacy and why the classroom can be as radical as the protest line. Together, they explore the legacy of the Pulse tragedy, the importance of inclusive curriculum, and how storytelling became a survival tool for a generation shaped by loss.
From GSA grants to youth leadership, Sara shares how the DRU Project honors Drew’s life while building a future where queer students thrive—not just survive.
Welcome to the Queerest Podcast, your cosmic guide to the queer universe. Hosted by Andre BVR, each episode takes you on an interstellar journey through queer culture, identity and influence, from dismantling media tropes to exploring queer representation. We invite you to challenge norms and expand your horizons. So buckle up and set your phasers to fabulous Close encounters of the queerest kind await.
Speaker 2:Greetings, cosmic queers and allies. I am your host, andre BDR, and this is the Queerest Podcast, your cosmic guide through the ever-expanding universe of queer culture, identity and influence. Today's episode is about legacy what we inherit, what we build and what we choose to carry forward. It's about turning loss into purpose and creating something lasting for the next generation. We'll talk about friendship, grief, youth advocacy and the kind of storytelling that doesn't just remember but makes change. So here's how today's journey breaks down. We'll kick things off with an incoming transmission checking in on what's lighting up the queer universe. Then we'll beam into a deep space dive with Sarah Elizabeth Grossman, whose work with the Drew Project is changing how we support LGBTQ plus students through curriculum, creativity and care, and finally we'll head into the final frontier for some cosmic rapid fire reflections. But first let's scan the queer skies and tune into what's coming through. You are now tuned into the incoming transmission, our signal check on the queer universe. From culture shifts to policy moves. This is where we track what's changing and how we move through it together.
Speaker 2:June 12th marks nine years since the Pulse nightclub shooting in Orlando, florida, an act of violence that targeted queer and trans people, mostly Black and Latinx, in a space that was meant to be safe. It was Latin night, it was Pride Month. It was supposed to be a celebration of identity. Instead, it became one of the deadliest mass shootings in US history and a turning point in how we understand queer safety in this country. Pulse wasn't just a tragedy. It was a collision of broken systems, weak gun laws, anti-lgbtq rhetoric, racism, neglected mental care the kind of systemic failure that turns marginalized people into targets. Pulse wasn't just a tragedy. It was a collision of broken systems, weak gun laws, anti-lgbtq plus rhetoric, racism, neglected mental health care the kind of systemic failure that turns marginalized people into targets. It forced a reckoning who gets to feel safe and at what cost for those living at the intersections of queerness, race and gender? Nine years later, the grief still lingers, but so does the work the fight for safer communities, for better laws, for spaces where queer people can live fully and freely.
Speaker 2:The legacy of Pulse isn't just in what we remember. It's in what we do next, and that's today's incoming transmission from the queer universe. Let's beam in today's Deep Space Dive. Before we jump into today's Deep Space Dive, we want to take a moment to ground this conversation in some important context. On June 12, 2016, 49 lives were taken at Pulse Nightclub in Orlando. Among those lost that night were Drew Lennon, a passionate advocate for queer youth, whose legacy lives on through the Drew Project. Today's guest, sarah Elizabeth Grossman, was Drew's close friend, and, while she wasn't there that night, the loss of someone who she loved profoundly changed her life forever and shaped the work that she does now to uplift and protect queer youth. I'd like to welcome Sarah Elizabeth Grossman to the Queerist Podcast. Sarah, welcome, welcome.
Speaker 3:Hi, thank you so much for having me today. I am very excited to be sharing Juneteenth with you?
Speaker 2:Yes, absolutely. And on top of that, one of our mutual friends, Gino, actually introduced me to you after a you know, a LinkedIn post, so I'm so glad to be connected.
Speaker 1:Oh, I love that. Oh, that's wonderful.
Speaker 3:Gino is a peach in a jam jar, as some people say in the South. Something sweet inside of something sweet. And he is yeah, he's delightful.
Speaker 2:I'm using that one. I'm using that one. That's great. You have to pass it on.
Speaker 3:I dated a poet once. That's where I picked it up and I have kept it in my back pocket since.
Speaker 2:I love it. It's so good, awesome. So I would love to start off with learning about you, and you have many, many hats that you wear. You are a writer, you are an advocate, you are a strategist, with your hands on so many meaningful projects. How would you describe what you do and why you do it?
Speaker 3:What an incredible question. So everything I do is usually because I'm passionate about it. I have a really difficult time doing things that I'm not, and so it just so happens that I have fallen into the correct place. I do anything from branding for politicians to helping young queer songwriters and musicians get into press. I have worked on, obviously, campaigns for different nonprofits. I run my own nonprofit. I run a business doing social media and social impact communications for LGBT-owned businesses, and sometimes I sleep In your free time, you know.
Speaker 3:In my free time, no, actually in my free time I wrote a children's book. So I really, you know it's.
Speaker 2:And then after that I slept. Yeah, After, after a day's work, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3:Yes, exactly, but you know it's June. You know we don't sleep in June.
Speaker 2:Not in June. No, no, that's what July is for. That's what July is for, exactly, Exactly, awesome. So I want to understand, as somebody who wears so many hats and is an advocate for our community in a variety of ways, what was the moment for you or experience that first pushed you into advocacy work? Was it personal, was it political? Maybe a little bit of both. Like, where does that land?
Speaker 3:So I honestly I started this work back in college when I was a participant in the University of Central Florida's Gay Straight Alliance. At the time it was mostly social. I was learning to be a young queer person. I was learning how to be myself, learning about community and things of that nature. But in my time there, between 2003 and 2007, we did a lot of incredible things like put on a fake gay marriage that got the attention of all of the news in Florida. We did a lot of protesting and I brought that with me throughout my grad school and then into post-grad once I moved out to Denver and started doing a lot of work either in the political sector or the nonprofit sector. So when I'm in Colorado, I worked for One Colorado when marriage equality was gained. I worked for the Gill Foundation for a while. I worked for the Matthew Shepard Foundation for a while, and through all of these incredible organizations I learned so much to be able to contribute to the Drew Project.
Speaker 2:That's incredible. Like that entire journey of just like having such like an understanding of your identity and being able to channel that into you know, impact, and to be able to be able to work with so many different organizations, I think is so exciting and inspiring. Honestly, like for me, I wasn't able to come out until I was like 22, 23. And so, like you, having you know, known about your identity in college and been able to then channel that through a series of different initiatives and organizations, I think is so amazing and, like I, that that inspires me.
Speaker 2:I think, and I think, like just looking at how queer youth today are so self-assured and are able to understand their identity and embrace it so unapologetically. I think is so something that I wish I had done at such a younger age. I think I had a lot of shame around my identity growing up that like I wasn't able to allow myself to do that Cause it was like I wanted to be who I wanted. I was trying to be the person that other people wanted me to be, versus being the person that I knew that I was. At the end of the day, like how, how did you, how did you? Yeah, how did you unpack that?
Speaker 3:That has to be one of the most exhausting things not being able to be your true self. For me, I, you know I had. You know I didn't have that much adversity from my family. My mom cried about never having grandchildren when I came out. But she's not having grandchildren because I do not like kids, not because of my sexuality, and that was essentially it when I came out my sexuality, and that was essentially it when I came out.
Speaker 3:And I am very lucky to have been surrounded by friends who mostly cared and mostly were very supportive and accepting. And I Do, you know much about personality type Enneagram or anything like that. I'm an Enneagram 4. And so that very much means I cannot be anything that is not me. I have attempted for tiny spurts throughout my life and career and it ends up just not working out. So I have thrived the most and been the most successful by being exactly who I am and the youth who are able to do that now, because people who are older, our age and even older weren't are able to do that now. Because, you know, people who are older, our age and even older weren't necessarily able to do that growing up in the 90s, early 2000s and earlier than that, but nowadays there's so much incredible infrastructure for queer youth that and support and just like you are who you are and that's it and who who cares and that is a lot of the attitude that Drew also had when he was alive as well, and I carry that with me.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. And on the topic of Drew, can you tell me a little bit more about who Drew was to you and how has his memory shaped the way that you move through the world?
Speaker 3:So Drew was one of my best friends in college. I met him the very first week of college, when I was 18 years old, in the very first Gay Straight Alliance meeting. He walked up after the meeting with his roommate at the time and they both said you should be our friend, and I took the suggestion and we were pretty inseparable throughout college after that moment. He was somebody that I could rely on for deep conversations, for being silly, for introducing me to new and interesting pop culture things that I didn't know about. I was forced to watch Eurovision throughout most of college and beyond, and now I do it out of my own volition beyond, and now I do it out of my own volition.
Speaker 3:And just you know, he was somebody who had infinite amounts of energy, who was always down for a good time, always down to be, whether playful or deep, or intellectual or introspective. He was the entire gambit, and I had never felt as seen by another person as I did by him previously in my life, and so that connection was really strong and really incredible, and when getting to know each other, I learned that he started the very first Gay-Straight Alliance at his high school in 2002 in Seminole, florida, which was about a half hour from my high school in Tampa, florida, and that very same year I also tried to start a Gay Street Alliance at my high school and was denied, and so to learn about how he pushed through and he did it, and it was really inspiring to me, and so there was definitely a lot to learn from him.
Speaker 2:That's incredible, and the fact that Drew was able to do that in such a state. That is so politically. I don't even know what the word I would use, but just it's Florida, right, and I think there's a lot of baggage that comes with that right and it's like you know that the politics there are very repressive to queer people.
Speaker 2:So the fact that Drew was able to do that at such a young age and then to be able to create a community and a support system for other queer youth, I think is what like that's so powerful to be able to do that at such a young age and to allow others to be able to be themselves, like that is like one of the most like radical acts that you can do is, like you said before, is you being yourself gives space for other people to be themselves. And it's like for us to be outside of this like world that is so bent around conformity. That radical act of just being yourself is so powerful and can change so many lives and I can only imagine, like the impact that Drew had on the classmates that he had and the impact that those people made on others. Like it's just exactly like how you can start.
Speaker 2:You could be the catalyst that ends up creating great change among other people, both personally, culturally, socially, like all of those things.
Speaker 3:Absolutely, and the ripple effect is huge. I know we'll touch on it a little bit later, but over a thousand people showed up to his funeral.
Speaker 2:That's incredible to see that level of impact from an individual like that to be able to. Can you unpack that a little bit more actually?
Speaker 3:So Every person who I have encountered, who was close with Drew, has the exact same experience of him, and for a person, especially a Gemini, to be able to be authentically themselves, through and through, consistently, I think that speaks volumes.
Speaker 3:Everybody had the same stories about Eurovision. Everybody had the same stories about the silly YouTube videos he made us all watch. Everybody had the same stories about him forcing people to play Dance Dance Revolution with him and listen to Britpop before it was cool and it just. It goes on and on and on and so, yeah, at his funeral there were over a thousand people there, the entire church was filled and they had an extra room where people congregated and, honestly, one of the things that I wish so badly that I could tell him in the afterlife. There are three or four things that I wish I could relate to him, but the number one thing is that the Westboro Baptist Church picketed his funeral and he would have been delighted to know that, because that meant that he made it. That is being very influentially queer if Westboro comes and pickets your funeral, so I thought that was really cool.
Speaker 2:That's super cool and and like to be able to have that level of impact in the community that they would like dedicate their time, their free time to do that says so much about drew and drew's impact on the community. What a compliment, what a true compliment on his life and his legacy.
Speaker 3:I love that. Thank you for understanding, thank you for creating that, because it really, it really speaks volumes.
Speaker 2:Yeah no juice just sounds amazing. And also the ddr of it all like, yeah, I already love drew so much already right and I must admit that in my youth, in college, I was actually really good at it.
Speaker 3:I practiced because I had to keep up with him. He was, he was ridiculous at it.
Speaker 2:It's so hard, it requires so much coordination and it's just like people that are good, like they're like amazing and it's just like people that are good like, they're like amazing and it's just like I want to get on that level right.
Speaker 3:But one of the odd things and you know, part of the irony and the tragedy is that he was a terrible dancer, terrible he. So he could. He could do the steps on the ddr, but in real life he would, if you remember the night at the Roxbury.
Speaker 2:Yeah, where they would just like slam against people. Yeah, oh, my goodness yeah.
Speaker 3:That was Drew, that was Drew, and it was with loving force, one might say.
Speaker 2:Of course, of course. So with Drew's legacy and memory. You know you created the Drew Project, which was born out of, obviously, heartbreak, but also like it was a moment to turn grief into action. And how would you describe what the Drew Project is and what its mission is, and why does it feel so urgent for today?
Speaker 3:On my way back from his funeral, nine years ago actually, I think it was nine years ago today I purchased the drewprojectorg because that was Drew's screen name. His MySpace, his live journal, his whatever online presence he owned, was the Drew Project. And we would always kind of make fun of him being like what's the Drew Project? And it became very clear after knowing him a while that it was the progress of himself and the progress of life and how he came into himself and keeping track of it. And so I wanted to, you know, make sure that nobody out there and Westboro Baptist Church would take the Drew project. And a couple months later, as I was trying to think about what to do with the URL, I got a phone call from some of his friends in Orlando who said that they already had the 501c3, that they already had the funds ready to go, and they were dreaming up ways to honor him and needed the URL. And I was like, well, dreaming up ways to honor him and needed the URL. And I was like, well, my background is in digital communications, can I help? I would love to contribute, I would love to make the website, the branding, all of it. And here we are today.
Speaker 3:And so, like I said earlier, he was a huge proponent of safe spaces for queer youth while he was alive and he started the very first Gay-Straight Alliance at his school and was a beacon of hope for a lot of queer youth when he was an RA in college and we wanted to expound on that and make that his legacy. And so we decided to break the Drew Project into three buckets. One is our GSA guide, which is free to download on our website. It is the most comprehensive guide, slash curriculum for LGBTQ youth, businesses, ergs, everybody uses it. It has workshops, it has definitions, it has history, it has absolutely everything that you need to either bring your gay straight alliance to the next level, to teach a class on queer history, etc. And we also used notes of Drew's from his old computer from when he started the first GSA at his high school, so he lives in those pages permanently, which is a really, really cool thing.
Speaker 3:And then we had money that we had to give out and so we decided that community in college and at university is such a pivotal part of the queer experience of growing up, of finding yourself, that we wanted to help LGBTQ leaders continue their education by getting to go to college without the burden of maybe needing an extra job a semester or two in order to pay for it or not being able to pay for their books on time.
Speaker 3:And so we started the Spirit of Drew scholarship, and at this point we have given out nearly, or a little bit over, a quarter of a million dollars to LGBT youth going to college and grad school. We also started a couple of years ago giving out student loan grants, because we know that student loans are very prohibitive when it comes to thriving after college, and we also give out Gay-Straight Alliance grants. There are many grants, up to $500 each, that Gay Straight Alliances apply for all around the country. They can use it for a field trip like, say, to the Pulse Memorial, or they can use it for a movie night or a queer prom or creating t-shirts for their group. We are not prohibitive with the funds, we just want them to be able to thrive. And so those are the components of the organization and the way that we continue to keep Drew alive.
Speaker 2:That's so beautiful, honestly, just being able to bring the spirit of Drew through so many different programs. That is focused on like youth advocacy, and obviously that's a central part of the work that you do on like youth advocacy, and obviously that's a central part of the work that you do. Why? Why focus specifically on like LGBTQ, youth and education and how are you?
Speaker 3:equipping them to like lead into the future. Honestly, one of the most in our research, one of the most prohibitive things was funding, and so we wanted to allow these students to be able to reach their full potential without that burden. But if you pay attention to the news and it's hard to be queer right now, even with the generations that are coming out earlier and claiming themselves earlier and being steadfast in their authenticity earlier in life that doesn't mean that the government isn't coming for them. That doesn't mean that they can necessarily be themselves at home or maybe at school, and so one of the most important things as a former queer youth who did not have a queer adult to look up to, was being that queer adult, to be able to show youth that you can do what makes you happy, that you can thrive even in the face of adversity. That's huge, and so that is another component of the organization to be run by these adults who made it through the phases that these kids are going through now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker 2:I can only imagine, like I say this a lot, but I feel like the programs that the Drew Project has, like the programs like that the Drew Project has, like the programs that the Drew Project has, I think are so essential for queer youth to be empowered to, like you know, exist unapologetically, to be able to tap into their leadership skills, their personal development.
Speaker 2:It's like that stuff is like so pivotal to one's development in both like a professional and a social capacity, and it's like the impact of empowering these queer leaders, queer youth leaders, is just infinite, like we talked about before, like the ripple effect of it all, it's like by giving these youth the resources that they need to succeed to learn about themselves, learn about their community, learn about how they can kind of exist in a world that tells them that they shouldn't exist, I think is so life-changing. And I think like for me, just growing up in a world where being told that queerness is bad and queerness is something you shouldn't embrace, and if you like some of the same gender, or if your identity, your gender identity, is different from the binary or whatever that is like it's, so you, you develop that internalized homophobia and it has so many.
Speaker 2:You know negative rippling effects of like, absolutely, it can impact you, it can impact the people around you, like it's just so infinite, on, on, on both ends of like if you are given the right research versus if you're giving the wrong message.
Speaker 2:And it's like that is so, so pivotal, I think, for queer youth to be able to be surrounded by the right resources, the right messaging, even in a world that continues to say like hey, we don't want you, you shouldn't exist, like. But the drew project, literally, is focused on empowering these youth to create and to be and to celebrate their identity in the community around them. Like that's so beautiful, honestly.
Speaker 3:Thank you. It's important to remind people that they're loved, that they're accepted, that they're valid.
Speaker 3:You can't hear that enough especially right now, especially with the Supreme Court upholding a ban on transgender health care, especially with the Supreme Court upholding a ban on transgender health care, especially with the current administration getting rid of 988 services specifically for queer youth. If you want a great statistic, schools with gay-straight alliances offer 50% less of a threat of suicide attempt. So if you are a queer kid who has a GSA in their school where there is an affirming and safe space because sometimes they don't have that space at home and so if you have a safe space to go to, that cuts in half the number of suicide attempts by queer youth. And so the statistics are there, the information is there. It just is a matter of what you do with that information and if you dare to do something brave and bold with it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I think that says so much about the policymakers of our country, like, even with the data that proves how effective these programs are, they choose not to do that. They choose to, you know, prevent these students from organizing, prevent teachers from, you know, guiding students into these types of spaces and supporting them on their journey, like they're doing literally the absolute opposite and then, in doing so, are having so much adverse impact on these youths lives Like that's just like it's so cruel and it's so ruthless and it's so like unproductive, like and the impact of that has so many you know other levels of it the economic, you know impact of their own personal journey, potentially, and you know all of the things that kind of are attached to that. And you know, on that topic of kind of the policy, I know you've also previously worked with organizations like Everytown for Gun Safety. How do you, how do you connect the dots between LGBTQ rights, queer youth and like gun violence prevention and like why do those movements need each other?
Speaker 3:They all need each other. Again, with the statistics. Statistically, queer people are more likely to be killed if there's a hate crime that involves a gun. You know this was all. Obviously, my impetus for this was born out of Pulse, where it was both a queer nightclub and gun violence, and so I think it's important to continue to share statistics, continue to share information and, more than anything, continue to share your story. Continue to share information and, more than anything, continue to share your story. You know, when I talk to people about losing Drew, about the heartbreak and how crestfallen I was and how I chose to push my anguish into action through the Drew Project and through Everytown for Gun Safety, if that inspires one person to stand up and do something, then I have done my job. If I am able to save one queer kid from having to stay at home rather than go to college, where they might have more of an accepting community, then I will have done my job.
Speaker 3:A lot of organizations and a lot of people think that you have to have huge swaths of impact, but what they don't understand is the ripple effect of the smaller impacts that you have create the eventual bigger impacts Without empowering queer youth at school without offering them a key to be able to continue throughout college and continue to be advocates, how are they going to continue this into their adulthood?
Speaker 3:How are they going to then inspire queer youth as adults? And so it really is a process and it's a very long arc, just like justice, but the arc is long and the ripple effects are huge, and so we will continue this work. And to kind of go back to your point earlier, the lawmakers who have these statistics. They choose alternative facts because the cruelty is the point. They don't care about us and they're not. They're saying the quiet thing out loud now by offering these horrific pieces of legislation or executive orders. And so it's on us once again. Just as we got ourselves through Stonewall, ourselves through the AIDS crisis, ourselves through DOMA, through Don't Ask, don't Tell, through the marriage equality, through health care issues, health care scares, we continue to do the work within our own community, the grassroots way, and if there are people at the top who want to help, that is fantastic. But history has not been kind in that venue.
Speaker 2:I completely agree, and it's like this is, in my opinion, this conversation right now, this part of it, is really a call to policymakers, to lawmakers, to anybody that has any power in any form of local, state, national leadership you need to care about these communities.
Speaker 2:We are just as much a part of your population as anybody else and, if anything, we are the ones that need the resources, we need the support, we need the affirmation that our identities are something to be celebrated, not something to be demonized or criminalized, or you know, just the variety of things that they do in order to break our spirit, to break our community, and it doesn't work because we continue, as you mentioned, with all of those different moments in our history as a community.
Speaker 2:We've thrived under pressure, we have rose above these obstacles and are still here, we are still growing, we are still changing the world for the better, even as we continue to hit different obstacles, different, you know, like you mentioned, the recent Supreme Court ruling around trans healthcare, like it, just it's there's. Our community is just so powerful and resilient that, no matter what's thrown at us, we will always rise above and we'll, you know, come together in solidarity and push for what we as a community need, cause that's what, at the end of the day, the ones that we can really only truly trust is our community to deliver on. That, which is sad, but it's also the beauty of the LGBTQ plus community, is that we have each other and we can do this together, and that's about showing up for each other even when it's hard. Right, right, right, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's the beauty of it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, and you know you. You, like I've mentioned before, you have multiple roles that you you know multiple hats that you put on doing the various work that you do. You're not just a spokesperson, you're also a storyteller. And I want to talk about your writing because you know you, your writing has helped you process. You know the hard stuff that you've experienced, but it's also built bridges for other people. Can you tell me a little bit more about that?
Speaker 3:Oh gosh, sure. So whether I have been ghostwriting for Judy Shepard when I was at the Matthew Shepard Foundation, or writing op-eds on behalf of the Drew Project about why pride matters Writing op-eds on behalf of the Drew Project about why pride matters and even though things are hard right now it's more important than ever to survive with queer joy or my children's book, which is about my dog Baxter meeting a diverse array of different dog friends on the way to the pride parade, words and stories matter. Stories are what change hearts and minds, and it's community Again, it's community. Everything comes back to community and being able to read somebody's story and being able to relate to it.
Speaker 3:That I don't think has always been seen and I don't think that's always been heard. And I think that the more people, again, who live in their authenticity and continue to tell their stories and continue to get them in front of an audience, whether big or small, because I've spoken about my story in front of 10 people and I've spoken in front of 100,000 people and it's no different for me Because, at the end of the day, if you impact one person in that group, one person who reads my op-ed, one person who hears my speech, and they're moved to go do something in Drew's honor or in somebody else's honor, then that's incredible and that has changed somebody's heart and somebody's mind. A lot of the work that I had the privilege of working on in the gun violence sector has kept so many Coloradans safe and I only wish that federally we had some of the people representing us that we do in Colorado, because they have really pushed the needle not only on queer rights but also gun violence prevention as well.
Speaker 2:That's amazing and, like you said, storytelling has so much power. It can change lives, it can change minds and it does have the impact to change policy too. It just it takes time, honestly, on the policy part. But it's like with all of the stuff that's happened to our community, I think it's still so wild to me that, like even with all of the knowledge that we have of the trials and tribulations and obstacles we face as a community, that the priorities of our community are not prioritized and if anything they're, they're regressed back to things where, you know, our healthcare is in jeopardy, our identities are in jeopardy, the educational access we have is in jeopardy, and it is so, contrary to all of the information that we have, all of the statistics and some of the ones that you've been mentioned. It's all there and yet somehow they're able to rationalize it in some twisted way that we don't matter or we shouldn't exist, or just a lot of just like nonsense.
Speaker 2:That is just like it's it's. I'm beside myself a lot of times where I'm seeing these politicians who are saying these things and I don't know if they believe it fully, but it doesn't matter, because they're saying it and then other people are hearing it and then parroting that, that, that same the same talking points, and it's just like right.
Speaker 3:I had a conversation with my mom this morning about a few of her friends and family members who voted for Donald Trump and who support X, Y and Z, because they think they're going to make a couple extra bucks. Well, I hate to break it to you, Mark, but we live in a society, not an economy, and you're not making any more money. You're losing it, we're all losing money, my God and media literacy is another topic for another podcast.
Speaker 2:Yes, absolutely, we'll definitely need to unpack that, because there's just so much that we need to unpack around media literacy, because there is just so much that people consume that they don't understand what they're reading or what they're consuming Right, and it's, it's. It's so unfortunate because, like you, we can, as those who are a little bit more media literate, can see what's being communicated with all of the coded languages and all of the different, like dog whistles and just all the different things that they do in order to create anger and then they demonize different communities, and it's just all the different things that they do in order to create anger, and then they demonize different communities.
Speaker 2:And it's just all part of this like bigger scheme in order to consolidate power and harm so many people in the process. Like it's a propaganda machine.
Speaker 3:It's a propaganda machine and it's gotten to the point where people don't know the difference between opinion and fact, because some of the news stations Fox News peddle opinion and fact. Because some of the news stations, fox news, peddle opinion as fact. In fact, I remember in college I accidentally turned on fox news at like one in the morning when I couldn't sleep and I saw these two anchors debating something and I was like, oh, are they trying to do something like john stewart? Is this supposed to be funny? Is this supposed to be like comedy?
Speaker 3:It's not funny, but I can appreciate it as satire. But no, they were not peddling it as satire and they were peddling it as fact. And that's how we ended up where we are today. We're in a great deal of trouble because of the lack of media literacy and the lack of education, and if it isn't apparent why the government is trying to crack down on education and people aren't going to listen and understand why education is a huge factor in progress, then we're in a real lot of trouble. And that goes back to exactly why the Drew Project wants to provide this curriculum, these grants and these scholarships in order to let people get their education, to give them an alternative way to learn about history, to give them a list of definitions, in order to understand the world a little bit better. And I only wish that everybody had access to educational materials like that.
Speaker 2:I agree Because, at the end of the day, education is power truly.
Speaker 1:That is it.
Speaker 2:That's it. When you have the power for the control of education and information, you have it all, truly Exactly.
Speaker 3:Exactly, of the control of education and information. You have it all, truly, exactly, exactly, and so that's not too difficult to see why they're trying to crack down on the Ivy League schools and trying to make school choice the only choice, and trying to take money away from public schools and put it in the pockets of private charter schools, and the list goes on and on and on.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and turning it a little bit back towards the Drew Project, I want to know if there's any specific moment of impact that sticks out to you and maybe it was something that the Drew Project helped with or an experience that made it feel kind of all worthwhile. Like what was that moment for you throughout this experience of working with the Drew Project?
Speaker 3:Oh my gosh. So at this point we've had about three dozen scholars that we've worked with and dozens of schools, but I think one of the most impactful moments of working in the Drew Project was a few years ago. We had a student who, during the first Trump administration, his DACA was taken away and he was one semester away from graduating with a computer science degree, and without our scholarship he would not have been able to graduate point blank and possibly would have had to. I don't know what he would have done at that point. He was a first generation Mexican American and we said, okay, then let's expedite this scholarship and get it to the school immediately so you can resume classes and graduate. And it's little things like that, you know, that are actually really big things that changed the course of his life, that changed the impact that he's able to make now as a cloud software engineer at Google. Oh my gosh.
Speaker 3:As a cloud software engineer at Google and working with their LGBT group and sharing important information about the progress of our community, and so that is a huge ripple effect that is started by a person giving us $5. All of those donations add up and they add to making the lives of queer youth so much better.
Speaker 2:That's beautiful and I think like to see that impact again.
Speaker 2:Just one story seeing how much the Drew Project, and then, in turn, drew's legacy, like that impact, continues to grow and grow and reach more people.
Speaker 2:So I love that so much and it makes me feel so happy to hear like that, you know, these resources are available for students who are in need, the ones that can use that extra support so that they can achieve their goals and they can, you know, explore the world and understand it in a much better you know, much better way. That's beautiful, thank you, yeah, and I would love, you know, explore the world and understand it in a much better you know, much better way. That's, that's beautiful, thank you, yeah, and I would love to now discuss a little bit around kind of Pulse. As it was, it was such a tragedy for our community, it was a tragedy for our country and, but I think it was also a turning point. Nine years later, what does meaningful remembrance look like to you, beyond just hashtags and anniversaries, like, how can people really show up for the community and honor the lives that were lost, including Drew's?
Speaker 3:So honor them with action is something that we talk about all the time, and whether that's a small action by, like I said, donating $5 to a queer organization or volunteering a couple hours of your time or sharing information with somebody who might need it Little actions add up to the bigger ripple effect, and it was a turning point, I think, in our time and in our history, especially in Orlando.
Speaker 3:I think in our time and in our history, especially in Orlando, orlando, every time I return to it, is so much more queer, accepting and so much more LGBTQ friendly than it was when I was in college here, and I think that's beautiful. And it also brought together so many organizations that coalesced for the greater good, to help the survivors, to help the victims, to help the families. I think that the LGBTQ community in Orlando is forever changed because of Pulse, but I think it put them on a trajectory to such a better place because we have so much more community now and we have so much more solidarity now between the organizations and the people who donate their time and money to them.
Speaker 2:That's great to hear that. You know Orlando and Florida in general are is becoming more queer, queer affirming and queer friendly. Like that's that's that's what the whole point is Like to to have this tragic moment yield change that ends up helping and, you know, improving the lives of LGBTQ people in that area, that city, that state. Like that's that's how you do that, that you, you like you said you honor it with action and you do it to better the community that was left in the wake of the tragedy. Like that's, that's how you do that. So I love that. And for listeners out there who are carrying grief and anger and fear, what would you tell them about turning pain into purpose?
Speaker 3:For me. First, I will say that everybody deals with grief differently. Some people turn inward, some people get angry, some people lash out. Some people are anxious angry Some people lash out, some people are anxious.
Speaker 3:For me, I'm a person who has to keep moving and for a very long time it was at the speed of light in order to avoid my own anguish, for a long time without acknowledging it, because I thought if I just continue to do and put out and output and create and all of these things for the community, I'm going to end up feeling better. And it did work for a while until I eventually had to recognize my grief. But overall, I think that volunteering there's probably a statistic somewhere that I don't know but volunteering makes you feel better. Giving back makes you feel better. Acknowledging a larger community and the needs of the community only can make you more human, and so I think that making sure that you have a community of people who you can grieve with and don't do it in a silo, that, I think, is one of the most important things.
Speaker 3:There are so many people in my life now who might've been peripheral in my life prior to Drew's funeral or might have been people I never met prior to Drew's funeral One of our co-founders, brandon Wolf, who works for HRC.
Speaker 3:Now he is one of my closest friends and I did not know him before I got on our very first call to create the Drew Project and he is a person who we confide in each other a lot about a lot and similarly with Gino, who introduced us, one of his best friends, was one of Drew's best friends and through the different ripple effects and connections I got to meet him and it just it's. We're all interconnected. It's really a matter of finding the right way to participate in that interconnection and I think that the building of community has been one of the most incredible and healing parts of this process of healing through grief. Giving back is obviously always going to be such a boon to this tragedy, but the community that has been solidified and created in the wake of the tragedy I think has been a huge help with my grief in the wake of the tragedy, I think has been a huge help with my grief.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I agree, it all comes back, like you said, to community and being able to, you know, be in solidarity with each other, to support each other in moments of difficulty, like that's. You know, like you said, grief can come in many forms. People all deal with it in a different ways, but when, when, but when one is ready to come back out into the community and to get that external support, it's so enriching and, yeah, we're here for them. It's enriching and you know it can bring you back to you know, your world and it allow you to move forward with you know the beauty of the memory of the people that you've lost, but also give you newfound purpose, potentially in the process which I think is beautiful.
Speaker 3:I think that the community I've also created through Everytown for Gun Safety, through the fellowship that I entered into in 2019, has been huge.
Speaker 3:There are people that I can just reach out to when there's another mass shooting to just be like damn it, not again, or just you know, we celebrate and grieve our different anniversaries. We are there for each other, even for things that are not related to gun violence, and so being able to meet and hold on to people from all different areas and sectors of life has been absolutely life-changing. There have been mothers of Black sons shot in Chicago who I consider my second mothers. There are people who have lost parents or family to domestic violence and gun violence who are my second families, and I think that's also one of the beautiful things that we learn as queer people is that we can choose and we can have a chosen family, and so I have that in my gun violence survivor and prevention family and I have that in my LGBTQ family, and so I have that in my gun violence survivor and prevention family and I have that in my LGBTQ family, and that's only been, that's only grown since Pulse, and I'm very, very grateful for that.
Speaker 2:Beautiful and on that note, that concludes our deep space dive, we will continue with our final frontier shortly. All right, that brings us to the final frontier. Our signature closing segment, where we ask every guest the same five questions, to wrap up with some fast, takes real talk and a peek at what makes you. You so answer as quickly or as thoughtfully as you'd like. There are no wrong answers, so let us get into it. The first question I have for you is what is your go-to queer anthem that never fails to get you pumped?
Speaker 3:Okay. So there's actually a story that relates to Drew with this. I love that. Yes, on every single CD, mix CD that he made for me throughout college and this is going to give it gives me the chills whenever I talk about it.
Speaker 3:His favorite song was Murder on the Dance Floor by Sophie Ellis Baxter. Yes, but he was murdered on a dance floor, oh, wow, yeah, like that song was. I can't even tell you how many times I listened to that song in college. And then, with the resurgence of that song this year, that's definitely one of the things I wish I could still talk to him about. He would have loved the movie Salt Burn and he would have loved the resurgence of that song. I couldn't even believe it because it's such a deep cut and such a random, such a random song. And then the other one is Dive Into the Pool by let me look that up real quick, who it is? By Pepper Mache. It's old, but in Orlando in college there was a club called Parliament House that had a pool and it was, but they would have foam parties and then after everybody would dive into the pool and they would play the song and it would be a whole thing.
Speaker 2:So I would say those are.
Speaker 3:Murder on the Dance Floor and Dive Into the Pool are definitely my two gay anthems. I love that.
Speaker 2:That's amazing. The next question I have for you is if your LGBTQ plus identity came with a warning, what would it say?
Speaker 3:oh, warning, you're in the splash zone for glitter. I am the friend who always has the glitter and I'm always glittering people and I think that is definitely a part of the queer experience.
Speaker 2:I agree, agree, and then also a part of the queer experience, I agree, I agree. And then also a part of the queer experience is finding that glitter years later too. Everywhere, everywhere, everywhere, Yep, yep yep, yep, just like the sparkle of queerness, just like you know staying with you a little bit. You know what I mean.
Speaker 3:Absolutely just like that.
Speaker 2:Exactly. The next question I have for you is if you had a queer superpower, what would it be?
Speaker 3:oh well, practical would be to ensure that all queer youth are cared for and have the support system they need. Love that, but maybe impractical shooting rainbows like spider-man yes, that would be such a good one.
Speaker 2:Why not? Why not? I think, yeah, that's great. Who needs?
Speaker 3:oh, my god, especially you just shoot the, shoot the uh right out of your wrists, right out of your wrists, yes, yes that's a great one.
Speaker 2:That is a great one. The next question I have for you is what is your favorite piece of queer content? So this could be a film, a, a show, a book, a podcast, anything that you're really loving right now that you want the queers community to check out.
Speaker 3:Well, right now, let me, it could be, it could be anything from the past that you just absolutely love.
Speaker 2:It doesn't need to be super recent.
Speaker 3:Sure, sure, sure, sure. Well, from the past I can definitely say without hesitation that but I'm a cheerleader was a very pivotal part of my young queer education. It was the only LGBT movie out when I was younger and I was so sheltered that I was like, wow, what a weird parody this is. Who would send kids to get straight out of camp. And it wasn't until I started, you know, learning about queer history and working in advocacy, that I realized conversion therapy was a real thing. Yeah, absolutely yeah, but I would say otherwise, all of the sapphic pop right now. So we've got Rene.
Speaker 3:Rapp, we have Girl in Red, we kind of have Fletcher, Kind of yeah, Not to be controversial, but and I think that is something that I would have loved to have more of when I was younger there really we had the Indigo Girls, we had Melissa Etheridge, but that didn't really speak to the pop of it all. You know Right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I first of all, but I'm a Cheer cheerleader, I think is so good it has, like everyone in it clea duvall, natasha leone in it like it's just yes, so can be so good, and it's just like
Speaker 2:yes the message is fantastic, but I think it's packaged in such a way that is just so hilarious and like over the top that, like people are like. That can't be real, but it's like that this this story is real. Yeah, exactly, exactly yeah, and then absolutely yeah, and then on your note, around the sapphic pop. Like I am living for these sapphic divas that are just like bringing the tunes and bringing the pop music like we need more of it.
Speaker 1:We need more of it.
Speaker 2:We need more of it. And I think like it's just like it's so needed in our culture to like have women, loving women. Art for public consumption Like that needs to be and for other women.
Speaker 3:It's for other women instead of for men. Now, exactly exactly, and that was definitely a message that I heard a lot as a kid that lesbians are only for men, lesbian content's only for men. Even in grad school, when I was getting my mfa in creative writing and I wanted to write essentially lesbian chick lit, like you know, I was told no, nobody wants to read that unless it's porn. So they have to have to go there Like come on now.
Speaker 3:Right, and that was coming from a gay man. Oh my gosh, which is insane. Even worse, yeah, even worse.
Speaker 2:I mean, there are a lot of misogynistic gay men out there and for those that are listening. And if you are misogynistic and you are a gay man, like check yourself, please, please. Like that's just so unnecessary Cause. Like let, let, let sapphic women live, let them embrace their art, let them see themselves reflected, let them see love that doesn't end in tragedy. Like let's just let them be happy and living and thriving. And like like, let them do their thing. You know what?
Speaker 3:I mean and that was one of the best parts about but I'm a cheerleader the two gals ended up together in the end despite all of the odds. Exactly, yeah.
Speaker 2:More happy endings for for staff of women right. Yes, yeah, that's that's the headline of this podcast Exactly Awesome. And then the last question I have for you is where can people stay connected to you and learn more about the Drew Project?
Speaker 3:For the Drew Project. We are the Drewrewprojectorg all over the internet and that's spelled D-R-U. And then, as for me, you could find me on Instagram at sosarasaw. You can find my book online. It's called Schnauzer in a Sweater Vest. You can find just type in my name on the internet and you'll find me just about any and my writing just about anywhere.
Speaker 2:Amazing, amazing. My name on the internet and you'll find me just about any and my writing just about anywhere. Amazing, amazing. And also donate, donate. Donate to the group project.
Speaker 3:Yes, we need your money more than ever.
Speaker 2:Yeah, $5, $10, $15. The more the merrier, because the more impact is created with more funds.
Speaker 3:Right, Exactly, exactly, yep, that is correct.
Speaker 2:Awesome, sarah. Thank you again so much for sharing your clarity, your care and your commitment. You've reminded us that some of the most powerful work starts in loss, but it doesn't end there. And the Drew Project isn't just a nonprofit. It is the continuation of Drew's life and legacy and it's a vision for how we show up for queer youth with intention and not just sentiment. You've shown us that memory doesn't have to be a weight. It can be a tool, it can be a guide, it can be a starting point. And every GSA that you and the Drew Project has supported, every student that y'all have reached, every resource is built in Drew's name.
Speaker 2:That legacy is in motion because queer youth are still being told that they don't belong, but your work says otherwise. Your work says that they matter, that they're not alone and that their future is worth protecting. And for today's cosmic key takeaway grief can freeze us or it can move us. Sarah's story reminds us what's possible when we let it move us towards action. Legacy isn't just about remembering who we've lost. It's about who we're fighting for now and what we choose to build next. So until next time, folks stay curious.
Speaker 1:And that's a wrap for this episode of the Queerest Podcast. Thank you for joining us on this cosmic journey through the queer universe. If today's conversation resonated with you, be sure to like, subscribe and share it with your chosen family. Your voice helps grow the queerest community. Until next time, stay curious. Thanks for watching.